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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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we need 2 new buttons in market
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#1 - 2016-03-01 10:18:24 UTC
"Make 0.01 cheaper than cheapest in station"
and
"sell 0.01 cheaper than cheapest in station"


how you guys like it?
Iain Cariaba
#2 - 2016-03-01 10:52:03 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
"Make 0.01 cheaper than cheapest in station"
and
"sell 0.01 cheaper than cheapest in station"


how you guys like it?

Yes, make .01 isk botting even easier. A very good idea.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#3 - 2016-03-01 11:26:08 UTC
bots have no issue with 0.01 isking anyways, right?
It would make it easier only for humans.
Iain Cariaba
#4 - 2016-03-01 12:46:56 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
bots have no issue with 0.01 isking anyways, right?
It would make it easier only for humans.

And make the code required to create a .01 isk bot significantly easier, thus more and more will come available.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#5 - 2016-03-01 12:47:49 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
bots have no issue with 0.01 isking anyways, right?
It would make it easier only for humans.

And make the code required to create a .01 isk bot significantly easier, thus more and more will come available.


who cares?
botting is illegal.
botting stays illegal
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2016-03-01 13:20:16 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
bots have no issue with 0.01 isking anyways, right?
It would make it easier only for humans.

And make the code required to create a .01 isk bot significantly easier, thus more and more will come available.


who cares?
botting is illegal.
botting stays illegal

Ok then. How about stop being lazy. Is it really so difficult for you to type out the price you want to sell at that you need a button to do your work for you?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2016-03-01 14:55:25 UTC
Oh the scams would be marvelous
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-03-01 15:57:10 UTC
We could always make the broker/SSC charge ISKs for order changes and most of the 0.01 isking would go away with no need for buttons...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2016-03-01 16:13:51 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
We could always make the broker/SSC charge ISKs for order changes and most of the 0.01 isking would go away with no need for buttons...

And with it most market activity as well and the market comes down to who has the most items and order slots so that they can make a new order to outbid someone else. Besides the fact that order modifications up greater than 0.1% of the order value already cost a scaling tax, your idea is just going to make the market so much more enjoyable.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-03-01 16:34:17 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
We could always make the broker/SSC charge ISKs for order changes and most of the 0.01 isking would go away with no need for buttons...

And with it most market activity as well and the market comes down to who has the most items and order slots so that they can make a new order to outbid someone else. Besides the fact that order modifications up greater than 0.1% of the order value already cost a scaling tax, your idea is just going to make the market so much more enjoyable.


As opposed to who has more time to 0.01 ISK down/up all day.
Cristl
#11 - 2016-03-01 16:55:20 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
We could always make the broker/SSC charge ISKs for order changes and most of the 0.01 isking would go away with no need for buttons...

That won't work, for a few reasons such as:

The fixed fee problem: If we charge a fixed amount per item, how do we balance bidding for a cargo expander I with bidding on a Nomad?

The percentage fee problem: If i want to buy a billion trit, and the system will charge me a percentage to modify that order, then I will just put up 50 orders for 20 million each. It pisses everyone off and stupidly consumes order slots.

The fundamental bot problem: Bots are fast and don't get bored. If we try to price out market modifications, bots will just change to always put up the best price for a single / small batch of commodity, then put up new orders each and every time they sell or get outbid...each time it will be by 0.01 ISK, of course.

It's not a simple problem.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-03-01 17:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
bots have no issue with 0.01 isking anyways, right?
It would make it easier only for humans.

And make the code required to create a .01 isk bot significantly easier, thus more and more will come available.


Honestly... probably not, in this case.

I mean, they could, but it would make them HILARIOUSLY vulnerable to manipulation if they weren't actually doing any price checking. You would really only cut out the actual price-entry, but you would still need logic to check if the new price would be acceptable. So, the actual benefit to a would-be botter would likely be pretty inconsequential, and the code would certainly not be significantly simpler.

That said, I don't really like the idea. The concept that adjusting prices by a penny at a time every five minutes determines the sole buyer/seller of a good in market hubs with thousands of players active is one of the dumber aspects of Eve, and I'd rather not see it reinforced with a button that does it for you.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#13 - 2016-03-01 18:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
We could always make the broker/SSC charge ISKs for order changes and most of the 0.01 isking would go away with no need for buttons...

And with it most market activity as well and the market comes down to who has the most items and order slots so that they can make a new order to outbid someone else. Besides the fact that order modifications up greater than 0.1% of the order value already cost a scaling tax, your idea is just going to make the market so much more enjoyable.

As opposed to who has more time to 0.01 ISK down/up all day.

In a world where you cannot set your products apart from your competition because everything is an exact clone of one another? Certainly, it's not the most enjoyable, but it's as of now the most feasible and least punishing. You can .01 ISK with just 1 unit of the product and fairly compete with other market participants. Adding more orders to a given market category simply increases your chances to sell more by a bit. It does not punish people with low financial resources and only gives so much reward to people with more ISK or order slots.
Under your idea, it would be mandatory to have several piles of a single product in order to remain at least close to the top of the list to sell anything at all, as well as to prevent losing any profit margin of your goods in a matter of minutes. Just one order modification too many and you sell at a loss and cannot modify that order again, let alone cancel and reintroduce. It punishes people with low financial resources and low skills (ie. for order slots) and rewards people exponentially with more ISK and skills.

To get back towards the topic again: .01 ISKing is dead, CTRL-Scroll to .10 ISKing is the new king. And screwing with numbers thanks to the small market font where 999 from a bit further away from the screen looks like 989 when you skim through the orders and have to update dozens per minute. As much as I do not like this manipulation, this button would eliminate the pay attention requirement for the market.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#14 - 2016-03-02 03:00:51 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
"Make 0.01 cheaper than cheapest in station"
and
"sell 0.01 cheaper than cheapest in station"


how you guys like it?



I think a better approach would to require the player to complete a data site style mini game before being able to change the price of an item. It would do a whole lot more for eve than your bot-o-matic idea.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2016-03-02 03:26:11 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
"Make 0.01 cheaper than cheapest in station"
and
"sell 0.01 cheaper than cheapest in station"


how you guys like it?


No. Just no. If you want to engage with the market, engage with it.