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RMT and Null Sec Alliances
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Forum Fighter
Doomheim
#101 - 2012-01-11 20:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Forum Fighter
Let's look at this logically. Someone is selling isk to RMT Sites. RMT Sites are selling isk to players. Who in the game would have so much isk that it would be tempting, worthwhile, profitable, possible, plausible or irresistable? Who has that much isk? Chribba/ Entity, a few successful market guys, Somer.blink, EOH, or tech moon farmers. Who has the most tech moons? Who just launched a major campaign to grab even more tech moons?

You can also tell the botters when you look at Dotlan for # of npc's killed in the last 24 hours. Some systems have like 5-6,000 npc's killed every 24 hours. That's an awful lot of ratting 24/7. And who controls/ safeguards those systems?

Bearer of the 1600mm Tinfoil Hat™
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#102 - 2012-01-11 20:22:04 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Nice try baby, but still not playing Blink



Go put words into some else's mouth.


I'm sorry
I guess I'm unaccustomed to dealing with someone who is both poor and bitter

oh and forget wow
OWS is that way ArrowArrow
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#103 - 2012-01-11 20:26:08 UTC
Forum Fighter wrote:
Let's look at this logically. Someone is selling isk to Gold Buyers/Sellers. ISK Sellers are selling isk to players. Who in the game would have so much isk that it would be tempting, worthwhile, profitable, possible, plausible or irresistable? Who has that much isk? Chribba/ Entity, a few successful market guys, Somer.blink, EOH, or tech moon farmers. Who has the most tech moons?

Clearly NCdot and PL do not invest their tech profits into their alliance
Forum Fighter
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-01-11 20:30:13 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Forum Fighter wrote:
Let's look at this logically. Someone is selling isk to Gold Buyers/Sellers. ISK Sellers are selling isk to players. Who in the game would have so much isk that it would be tempting, worthwhile, profitable, possible, plausible or irresistable? Who has that much isk? Chribba/ Entity, a few successful market guys, Somer.blink, EOH, or tech moon farmers. Who has the most tech moons?

Clearly NCdot and PL do not invest their tech profits into their alliance


I can't tell if that's sarcasm or notOops

Bearer of the 1600mm Tinfoil Hat™
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-01-11 20:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Morganta wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Nice try baby, but still not playing Blink



Go put words into some else's mouth.


I'm sorry
I guess I'm unaccustomed to dealing with someone who is both poor and bitter

oh and forget wow
OWS is that way ArrowArrow



Still failing hard midget, but thx for the entertainment LolLolLol
Now.... back on topic!

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Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#106 - 2012-01-11 21:37:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Reilly Duvolle's STUPID IS STILL BURNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HALP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



IF you had actually read what I wrote, you would have found that we agree on this particular issue about moongoo. So the hurting you feel didnt come from me.
ChakanForever
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-01-11 21:40:59 UTC
Beh, this thread pisses me off. Brings back bitter memories of why I quit two years ago among other things. Regardless, the RMTing is going on; and you might say, hey, so does every other single MMO. Eve is different though in that we are on a single server all sharing the same experience. I don’t care if Johnny Rotten bots all his phat loot in a game like Diablo 3 because quite frankly that doesn’t affect me at all in how I enjoy the game. In Eve you can play for free with bots. You can affect what I pay for modules, ships, etc. You defeat the whole idea that “yea, we killed that gang of strategic cruisers, that’ll set em back some!” Speaking of which, when was the last time a big alliance actually fell through against brute firepower and epic fleet fights that didn’t involve any kind of metagaming? I could be proven wrong as I haven’t followed what’s been going on but I know BoB fell because some guy clicked a disband button. I’d like to see one of these alliances succumb to pure strategy and war, but that’s apparently not that popular of an option or in the scope of a reasonable idea. The game promotes this though; it’s what you see in the cool yet frustratingly unrealistic videos. Why can’t it be like that?

I guess the bottom line of said rant is that Eve is different and so it is affected differently from RMT; worse than your average MMO In my opinion.
Cybele Lanier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2012-01-11 22:14:50 UTC
Skydell wrote:

So I play a game and manipulate the system so I make money off it as a side gig. Prove it, you can't.
I steal from a corp wallet, use it to buy Plex and sell those to alliance members on the side for $5 you can't prove it, neither can I. CCP can't prove it and they have better tools to monitor this than I do. They just don't have the man hours to dedicate to it.

I already said, I don't blame CCP for RMT but I'm not so stupid as to think it doesn't happen just because I can't "prove" it.


Then you're in the wrong thread. The OP was asking for people to present proof. And so far, number of posts with proof that CCP would take the risk of banning an acocunt over = zero. Which is weird considering how "obvious" all this botting is.

Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Personally I like the Chribba approach. He doesnt spew rumours and heresay acting as a useful idot / parrot for people with an agenda.

No, he provides proof.

In this case a contract spam bot in Jita, posting in local on average every 76 seconds for 7 days straight :)


For everyone foaming at the mouth about the evil RMT alliance (which happens to be the same one they're rivals of), read that.

"You don't need luck. You need theft things and run."
met worst
Doomheim
#109 - 2012-01-11 22:29:31 UTC  |  Edited by: met worst
It took 30 seconds with Google to find many sites selling BPO's, ships, ISK etc. for RM

Someone has the ingame ISK to buy this stuff and is then selling for money. How did they get that much ISK. Botting? Tech moons? Some pretty serious isk has been "harvested" to supply these sites.

Either way, RMT does exist AND there is AMPLE PROOF of it.

What's the OP? An ostrich?
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#110 - 2012-01-11 22:31:39 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Reilly Duvolle's STUPID IS STILL BURNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HALP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



IF you had actually read what I wrote, you would have found that we agree on this particular issue about moongoo. So the hurting you feel didnt come from me.



Is this like a forum bug or something? You seem to be reading a different thread then I am posting in.

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Morganta
The Greater Goon
#111 - 2012-01-11 22:36:16 UTC
met worst wrote:
It took 30 seconds with Google to find many sites selling BPO's, ships, ISK etc. for RM

Someone has the ingame ISK to buy this stuff and is then selling for money. How did they get that much ISK. Botting? Tech moons? Some pretty serious isk has been "harvested" to supply these sites.

Either way, RMT does exist AND there is AMPLE PROOF of it.

What's the OP? An ostrich?


and apparently you are blind

did anyone here dispute the fact that RMT happens daily?
did the OP dispute it?

no, the point is just because it happens is a **** poor excuse to claim that entire alliances support and engage in it as a whole or at the executive level

its like saying all people of a certain race are criminals because some of them are actually criminals
and if you applied that logic you would find that every race on the planet are a pack of criminals

get it now?
met worst
Doomheim
#112 - 2012-01-11 22:44:05 UTC
Morganta wrote:
met worst wrote:
It took 30 seconds with Google to find many sites selling BPO's, ships, ISK etc. for RM

Someone has the ingame ISK to buy this stuff and is then selling for money. How did they get that much ISK. Botting? Tech moons? Some pretty serious isk has been "harvested" to supply these sites.

Either way, RMT does exist AND there is AMPLE PROOF of it.

What's the OP? An ostrich?


and apparently you are blind

did anyone here dispute the fact that RMT happens daily?
did the OP dispute it?

no, the point is just because it happens is a **** poor excuse to claim that entire alliances support and engage in it as a whole or at the executive level

its like saying all people of a certain race are criminals because some of them are actually criminals
and if you applied that logic you would find that every race on the planet are a pack of criminals

get it now?

And my point asks WHERE that much ISK comes from? If it's NOT supported and endorsed by the large alliances (read 0.0) then where's the ISK - in the trillions - coming from?

No high-seccer can make that much ISK to support a trading RMT site.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#113 - 2012-01-11 22:44:06 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:


Those mountains of hulks.. again go and fraps it.

I keep seeing people talking about these huge fleets of bots in null sec yet I have never seen anybody fraps it.



I reported multiple times with CCP tickets a 23/7 Orca + 7-9 macks with pilots all with the same name except two last digits (I.e. Joe_01, Joe_02).
They all got discoed multiple times by some guys who once in a while jump clone to hi sec.
This happened so much that people started splitting T2 salvage they'd ninja with those jump cloning guys.

The few surviving pods keep going to-from station till the next downtime (when they get new macks).


After a while they and the Orca disappeared for 1 month. Then another Orca with other 7-9 macks returned.


But hey, who can PROVE they were bots...

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Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#114 - 2012-01-11 22:51:13 UTC
met worst wrote:
Morganta wrote:
met worst wrote:
It took 30 seconds with Google to find many sites selling BPO's, ships, ISK etc. for RM

Someone has the ingame ISK to buy this stuff and is then selling for money. How did they get that much ISK. Botting? Tech moons? Some pretty serious isk has been "harvested" to supply these sites.

Either way, RMT does exist AND there is AMPLE PROOF of it.

What's the OP? An ostrich?


and apparently you are blind

did anyone here dispute the fact that RMT happens daily?
did the OP dispute it?

no, the point is just because it happens is a **** poor excuse to claim that entire alliances support and engage in it as a whole or at the executive level

its like saying all people of a certain race are criminals because some of them are actually criminals
and if you applied that logic you would find that every race on the planet are a pack of criminals

get it now?

And my point asks WHERE that much ISK comes from? If it's NOT supported and endorsed by the large alliances (read 0.0) then where's the ISK - in the trillions - coming from?

No high-seccer can make that much ISK to support a trading RMT site.

Incursions can make plenty of ISK.

And lvl4 mission bots can run all day (23 hours) in HS making more ISK than a rel player running 10/10s.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#115 - 2012-01-11 22:56:01 UTC
met worst wrote:
Morganta wrote:
met worst wrote:
It took 30 seconds with Google to find many sites selling BPO's, ships, ISK etc. for RM

Someone has the ingame ISK to buy this stuff and is then selling for money. How did they get that much ISK. Botting? Tech moons? Some pretty serious isk has been "harvested" to supply these sites.

Either way, RMT does exist AND there is AMPLE PROOF of it.

What's the OP? An ostrich?


and apparently you are blind

did anyone here dispute the fact that RMT happens daily?
did the OP dispute it?

no, the point is just because it happens is a **** poor excuse to claim that entire alliances support and engage in it as a whole or at the executive level

its like saying all people of a certain race are criminals because some of them are actually criminals
and if you applied that logic you would find that every race on the planet are a pack of criminals

get it now?

And my point asks WHERE that much ISK comes from? If it's NOT supported and endorsed by the large alliances (read 0.0) then where's the ISK - in the trillions - coming from?

No high-seccer can make that much ISK to support a trading RMT site.


you might want to research how gold farming works before you embarrass yourself any more
http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/gold-farming-china-wow7go-530.jpg

met worst
Doomheim
#116 - 2012-01-11 22:56:10 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
met worst wrote:

And my point asks WHERE that much ISK comes from? If it's NOT supported and endorsed by the large alliances (read 0.0) then where's the ISK - in the trillions - coming from?

No high-seccer can make that much ISK to support a trading RMT site.

Incursions can make plenty of ISK.

And lvl4 mission bots can run all day (23 hours) in HS making more ISK than a rel player running 10/10s.

Not at the levels we're talking about here.

IMHO, it's a reasonable assumption that the coinage is coming from passive streams (eg: Tech moons) because 1, it's way too much work (i.e. Incursions) or 2) far too risky to run enough bots to supply the market as it stands.
met worst
Doomheim
#117 - 2012-01-11 23:12:38 UTC
Morganta wrote:
met worst wrote:
Morganta wrote:
met worst wrote:
It took 30 seconds with Google to find many sites selling BPO's, ships, ISK etc. for RM

Someone has the ingame ISK to buy this stuff and is then selling for money. How did they get that much ISK. Botting? Tech moons? Some pretty serious isk has been "harvested" to supply these sites.

Either way, RMT does exist AND there is AMPLE PROOF of it.

What's the OP? An ostrich?


and apparently you are blind

did anyone here dispute the fact that RMT happens daily?
did the OP dispute it?

no, the point is just because it happens is a **** poor excuse to claim that entire alliances support and engage in it as a whole or at the executive level

its like saying all people of a certain race are criminals because some of them are actually criminals
and if you applied that logic you would find that every race on the planet are a pack of criminals

get it now?

And my point asks WHERE that much ISK comes from? If it's NOT supported and endorsed by the large alliances (read 0.0) then where's the ISK - in the trillions - coming from?

No high-seccer can make that much ISK to support a trading RMT site.


you might want to research how gold farming works before you embarrass yourself any more
http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/articles/gold-farming-china-wow7go-530.jpg


One of the biggest RMT sites is a US registered business also selling "legit" items and have even been stupid enough to supply contact details. CCP could make some pretty quick enquiries and nail it if they so choose.

Whether they do and whether they could enforce anything is an entirely different matter.

(For the record, I deal in Chinese importations nearly ever day and the type of setup I'm looking at right now is NOT indicative of a Chinese dealer residing in the US. It is not a Chinese manufacture dumping site - a usually obvious giveaway. I made the statement - REASONABLE ASSUMPTION. It ain't proof, but no dealer is going to provide PROOF is he now? )

The question remains whether the amounts made in highsec are adequate enough to supply an active RMT trading site.

Besides, why are you trying to dampen down the likelihood of a US run 0.0 alliance being involved? Vested interest? Obfuscation?
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#118 - 2012-01-11 23:15:48 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Lots of bullshit




Try not to pay attention to people like this... the fact that they have their own agenda is obvious. Srsly... try to not feed it. Ugh

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Morganta
The Greater Goon
#119 - 2012-01-11 23:28:10 UTC
lol so now I'm a RMTer?

trollolololol

you saps are pathetic
just quit now, because things will never be the way you want them to be, so save yourself the aggravation and quit now
Avensys
The Waterworks
#120 - 2012-01-11 23:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Avensys
Prince Kobol wrote:


Those mountains of hulks.. again go and fraps it.

I keep seeing people talking about these huge fleets of bots in null sec yet I have never seen anybody fraps it.


don't have any fraps but here's a screenshot from December 14th: http://i.imgur.com/j4CKk.jpg

camped the system in a cloaky for two days some time after an alliance mate took this image - first day there still were 2-3 Rorquals idling logged in inside POS shields at all times, second day some guy showed up and pulled down one of the two large staging POSes in system after which the Rorquals (in the other POS) stayed logged off, too.

Snatched some of the POS fuel he had left behind and made my way home, ignoring the mining ships in the system next door.

As you will probably point out I have no reason to suspect anything other than an extremely well coordinated fleet of legit players, so I didn't bother CCP with any sort of petition.