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Manual Warp Controls

Author
Kristian Hackett
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#1 - 2016-02-28 21:49:54 UTC
Given that we have these new expanded grids, a wide range of ships at our disposal, and the ability to cover light years of distance in a matter of seconds, it seems strange to me that we don't have manual control of our warp drives. From being able to punch in a set of coordinates within range and go right to that spot to the ability to execute an emergency drop out of warp, the ship controls are severely lacking in these areas.

Here's what I propose:

1) Add the ability to execute an emergency drop out of warp. Penalize it to keep the mechanic from being too game breaking - ex. 1/3 to 1/2 cap consumption to stop, 15 second delay after warp exit to input another warp command, etc.

2) Add the ability to make manual coordinate inputs to the warp drive. As this would be a manual warp solution instead of utilizing one of the known destinations, the ship's nav computer would require some extra time to process and calculate this input, like 15-30 seconds. I would envision a 50% increased capacitor cost to go into warp in order to account for last second variations on the warp exit point in order for the ship to land on grid safely

3) Maximum solar system size could be limited due to dangerous gas clouds that exist beyond the edge of the solar system, and our ships are not rated to take that kind of damage for long. Let's face it, if players are given the ability to create their own warps you'll have bug out points saved at ranges that would require 20-30 max cap warps just to reach so the gas clouds would be of the variety that could drop a Titan in two or 3 hits.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."

Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#2 - 2016-02-28 22:48:02 UTC
Theres already a limit of 20 au from the outer planets orbit for bookmarks.
this was added when Deep Deep safes became an issue with fleet fighting. i used to have safes 660 au from gates, so if i wanted to troll someone i could park there without cloaking all day...
was fun in a capital warping at 0.6 au/s ... 19 min warp... enough to nip to the shop and back while watching a hostile try to probe you out :)

as for the rest of it. more than likely some exploit that would open if they allowed it
Lugh Crow-Slave
#3 - 2016-02-29 05:40:26 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Theres already a limit of 20 au from the outer planets orbit for bookmarks.
this was added when Deep Deep safes became an issue with fleet fighting. i used to have safes 660 au from gates, so if i wanted to troll someone i could park there without cloaking all day...
was fun in a capital warping at 0.6 au/s ... 19 min warp... enough to nip to the shop and back while watching a hostile try to probe you out :)

as for the rest of it. more than likely some exploit that would open if they allowed it


like landing on an enemy fleet with out even needing damn on grid probing
Kristian Hackett
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#4 - 2016-02-29 05:54:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kristian Hackett
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Theres already a limit of 20 au from the outer planets orbit for bookmarks.
this was added when Deep Deep safes became an issue with fleet fighting. i used to have safes 660 au from gates, so if i wanted to troll someone i could park there without cloaking all day...
was fun in a capital warping at 0.6 au/s ... 19 min warp... enough to nip to the shop and back while watching a hostile try to probe you out :)

as for the rest of it. more than likely some exploit that would open if they allowed it


like landing on an enemy fleet with out even needing damn on grid probing

On/Off grid restrictions could be worked into place, but I was thinking more along the lines of freighters getting bumped up in highsec. It's a pain in the ass annoying tactic with no salvation for the victim right now and no punishment for the perpetrator. But with this, if they start bumping in a direction other than the gate, all the freighter has to do is input the command for a, let's say they pick 20.3 AU warp. As long as they can hit warp speed in that direction boom they can escape and hopefully have enough time to turn around and get a warp direct to the gate.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."

Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#5 - 2016-02-29 06:04:38 UTC
On one hand, as previously mentioned, you could have the ablity to drop right on top of someone from warp. On the other hand it would make creating an out of line safe spot 1 step quicker because you could drop out of warp where you would create the first bookmark. But how would this affect your warp if there was a drag bubble on grid of your original warp location?

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#6 - 2016-02-29 07:10:53 UTC
There are a few folks that have gotten pretty good at watching where prey warp off to and meeting them there. It's a skill. I'd be sad if you negated a skill that makes someone good at eve by allowing players to drop out mid warp. Overall this is a tool that would prevent more player interaction than it would add. The game doesn't need yet another avenue of escape.

-1
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#7 - 2016-02-29 07:34:44 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
There are a few folks that have gotten pretty good at watching where prey warp off to and meeting them there. It's a skill. I'd be sad if you negated a skill that makes someone good at eve by allowing players to drop out mid warp. Overall this is a tool that would prevent more player interaction than it would add. The game doesn't need yet another avenue of escape.

-1


Completely agree. Being able to drop out of warp in mid warp and cloak up would make it even easier to avoid combat. It's already ludicrously easy.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-02-29 15:23:05 UTC
Kristian Hackett wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Theres already a limit of 20 au from the outer planets orbit for bookmarks.
this was added when Deep Deep safes became an issue with fleet fighting. i used to have safes 660 au from gates, so if i wanted to troll someone i could park there without cloaking all day...
was fun in a capital warping at 0.6 au/s ... 19 min warp... enough to nip to the shop and back while watching a hostile try to probe you out :)

as for the rest of it. more than likely some exploit that would open if they allowed it


like landing on an enemy fleet with out even needing damn on grid probing

On/Off grid restrictions could be worked into place, but I was thinking more along the lines of freighters getting bumped up in highsec. It's a pain in the ass annoying tactic with no salvation for the victim right now and no punishment for the perpetrator. But with this, if they start bumping in a direction other than the gate, all the freighter has to do is input the command for a, let's say they pick 20.3 AU warp. As long as they can hit warp speed in that direction boom they can escape and hopefully have enough time to turn around and get a warp direct to the gate.


Get a scout with webs to slingshot you into warp.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#9 - 2016-02-29 16:43:45 UTC
Kristian Hackett wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Theres already a limit of 20 au from the outer planets orbit for bookmarks.
this was added when Deep Deep safes became an issue with fleet fighting. i used to have safes 660 au from gates, so if i wanted to troll someone i could park there without cloaking all day...
was fun in a capital warping at 0.6 au/s ... 19 min warp... enough to nip to the shop and back while watching a hostile try to probe you out :)

as for the rest of it. more than likely some exploit that would open if they allowed it


like landing on an enemy fleet with out even needing damn on grid probing

On/Off grid restrictions could be worked into place, but I was thinking more along the lines of freighters getting bumped up in highsec. It's a pain in the ass annoying tactic with no salvation for the victim right now and no punishment for the perpetrator. But with this, if they start bumping in a direction other than the gate, all the freighter has to do is input the command for a, let's say they pick 20.3 AU warp. As long as they can hit warp speed in that direction boom they can escape and hopefully have enough time to turn around and get a warp direct to the gate.



You know, when you make a stealth, "Grrr, bumping" thread, you're not supposed to just come out and say that it was a, "grrr, bumping" thread.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

DrysonBennington
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-02-29 17:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: DrysonBennington
I think that a new ship that travels with the fleet should be Cold Drop the ships within its area of influence out of warp.

The Drop Ship would be able to Cold Drop no more than ten ships or the total number of Pilots in a squad out of warp. The Drop Ship would have to use a new type of fuel obtained from only one rock in the Universe, Augumene.

The Augumene would then have to be refined using a special facility to extract the rare ore that is then made into crystals that allows a ships warp core to create a bubble that is able to be deployed while in warp.

The Drop Ship would be slightly smaller than the Orca and be able to provide similar fleet support to ships such as a fitting hangar and drone to drone bay transfer ability.

The Drop Ship would be named Ásmóð and would have the attack and defense capabilities of a cruiser.



....oh if you don't like new ideas I heard there is a new section of space opening up called Be Quiet Space, you should go explore it and understand its full meaning.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-02-29 19:20:35 UTC
I do think that with the expanded grids can come expanded gameplay. If the worry is deep space safes then simply suggest something specifically to find deep space safes like bringing back the old deep space probes in some capacity. Seeing players do something like that and restrict it was the wrong move in the first place. Players creating gameplay should never be discouraged. They should however balance it if it becomes unbalanced thus my idea for deep space probes to find these deep space safes. Now if the issue is warp time we could perhaps answer that with soem of the new structures being proposed like acceleration gates which could affect warp speed of ships going through it and present the only way to warp to these deep space safes.

Perhaps there could be a secondary warp speed for when ships leave a stars heliosphere reducing the time ships can be safe in warp, something that might even accure fatigue to prevent it's over use.

Long story short expanded grids should allow for expanded gameplay. +1
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#12 - 2016-02-29 23:00:30 UTC

I LOATHE the idea of players "emergency exiting warp", especially if they suddenly see a bubble / gate camp on scan towards their destination.
♦ I imagine the cat'n'mouse game that I've participated in many at times, and the ability to "drop out of warp" would completely change that dynamic. With an emergency exit, I would no longer have to worry about where I chose to flee, as I can simply drop out of warp in a "safe spot" right after I enter warp. It would make it very difficult for someone to chase me, and I think that chasing aspect of PvP is a good thing. There are already means to warp "partway" to any celestial (capacitor dumping), which takes time to accomplish. So I feel that once you warp to an object, you should be committed to that warp (and the traps that may be setup for you on the other end)!.


While I can understand the desire for "warp to anywhere" type of game play, I don't necessarily think it is ideal. I'm one of those people that took the time to create super deep safes, and was sad to see them disappear. I found the new limits very reasonable, and like that only people who take the time to get deep safes currently have them.

What gameplay do you image the "warp to anywhere" experience will bring? I see several potential problems with it (crazy deep safes, locations inside planets/suns, etc), that will be enhanced by such a feature, yet I don't see much benefit that will result from it.


Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#13 - 2016-02-29 23:12:59 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:
On one hand, as previously mentioned, you could have the ablity to drop right on top of someone from warp. On the other hand it would make creating an out of line safe spot 1 step quicker because you could drop out of warp where you would create the first bookmark. But how would this affect your warp if there was a drag bubble on grid of your original warp location?


You can drop bookmarks in mid-warp, so dropping out of warp to make a bookmark would be 1 step slower, not faster.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#14 - 2016-03-01 01:12:40 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
On one hand, as previously mentioned, you could have the ablity to drop right on top of someone from warp. On the other hand it would make creating an out of line safe spot 1 step quicker because you could drop out of warp where you would create the first bookmark. But how would this affect your warp if there was a drag bubble on grid of your original warp location?


You can drop bookmarks in mid-warp, so dropping out of warp to make a bookmark would be 1 step slower, not faster.


The point is your don't need to even make BM anymore for a safe spot, you just drop out of warp and you're done. Do you understand how making safe spots works? I don't mean casually making a few safe spots in your home system (those are called tactical BM), I mean you're out trapped in a hostile system being hunted and combat probed and so on. This isn't about going out an making tactical BM for future use, this is about doing it while on the defensive and on the run.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#15 - 2016-03-01 03:08:22 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
On one hand, as previously mentioned, you could have the ablity to drop right on top of someone from warp. On the other hand it would make creating an out of line safe spot 1 step quicker because you could drop out of warp where you would create the first bookmark. But how would this affect your warp if there was a drag bubble on grid of your original warp location?


You can drop bookmarks in mid-warp, so dropping out of warp to make a bookmark would be 1 step slower, not faster.


The point is your don't need to even make BM anymore for a safe spot, you just drop out of warp and you're done. Do you understand how making safe spots works? I don't mean casually making a few safe spots in your home system (those are called tactical BM), I mean you're out trapped in a hostile system being hunted and combat probed and so on. This isn't about going out an making tactical BM for future use, this is about doing it while on the defensive and on the run.


This is exactly why I don't support this. It undermines one of the major benefits of using smaller ship classes. They can chase you, and even arrive at your destination before you do. With this change, you simply hit the warp break and are instantly safe. Hell NO!!! If you couldn't be asked to pick a safe destination to begin with, then you should get caught. This feature essentially eliminates the cat'n'mouse aspect of hunting targets.

Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
#16 - 2016-03-01 04:20:25 UTC
this is an MMO, so the counter to bumping is either to have friends or alts.

Just Add Water

Wimzy Chent-Shi
Makronka Company
#17 - 2016-03-02 07:53:39 UTC
We could also make warp calculations manual in so called manual override mode, so you can solve for x to warp out when scrammed, also geometrically quantify the difficulty of the solution per warp scramble strength. And no wolfram alpha cheating!
If you can hack your ships warp computer to drop out of warp, good for you, additional gameplay, bring a modified Hacking module to work in warp.
Also if you provide wrong solution/lose the minigame, your ship explodes and pods you - this makes for a fun roulette when faced with multiple solutions at higher geometric quantifiers and prevents you from being a potential warp in.

Come get some cancer @ my blog !

"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions. We are creating something here, that's productive, ...and then there is also salt." -Wimzy 2016

Lugh Crow-Slave
#18 - 2016-03-02 12:42:02 UTC
The idea is just to powerful in to many ways
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#19 - 2016-03-02 15:21:22 UTC
You mean like, make drag bubbles useless?

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Kristian Hackett
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#20 - 2016-03-12 17:12:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kristian Hackett
The point behind all of this is to make combat more interesting. For once, D-Scan can be damn useful for finding a target, input manual warp, bounce over, rinse/repeat without the use of combat probes. I'd think anyone hunting in nullsec would appreciate the idea. Granted it will require a bit more paitience, but if you're flying a ship with a covert ops cloak you're probably going to want that option of not needing to announce your presence with combat probes.

And yes, this would make drag bubbles a bit more interesting to use, but in all honesty I've seen more warp disruption bubbles chilling static in a system with no one around than I have seen one with combat ships ready to pounce on unsuspecting prey. And think of the flipside of that - you can now drop those bubbles anywhere on the point-to-point warp paths in a single pass, no dropping the BM, warping back, dropping the bubble, etc., etc.

And yes, it could also be a useful tool to counter current highsec ganking operations, but then the gank fleet should be ready to turn around and combat that with something light and fast that can catch the target.

Aircraft Maintenance - Using a high school diploma to fix what a college degree just f***ed up. "Life is too short to drink cheap beer."

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