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Skill injectors: now age is no longer intel
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Aviola von Yodalgut
Doomheim
#21 - 2016-02-29 15:59:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aviola von Yodalgut
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Droidster wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:


your concern is just a small part in getting intel and most of the time irrelevant. i always assume people have more SP than me and decide to fight with their ship/fit.



You assume 8-day-old players have more SP than you?

You assume 6-month-old players have more SP than you?

You assume 1-year-old players have more SP than you?

Let me tell you what I ASSUME (or at least could assume before skill injectors): if a player is less than 1 year old and I am flying a maxed out Ishtar, then I am going to rip him a new one if he tries to point me. That's what I assume, or at least used to be able to assume.

Unfortunately, that assumption is no longer true because of skill injectors, because now we can have 1-year-old characters with 100 million skill points.


And that is a bad thing?


I see that as a very good thing.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#22 - 2016-02-29 17:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Agondray wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Quote:
estimate how dangerous someone can be based on their age


I am old and not dangerous. Your estimates would not work for me.



Im old and cant be very dangerous BUT I prefer PVE to keep my account going to let others fund ccp screw ups like this instant gratification.

Gratification part is horribly overrated recently.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#23 - 2016-02-29 17:55:07 UTC
Droidster wrote:

Let me tell you what I ASSUME (or at least could assume before skill injectors): if a player is less than 1 year old and I am flying a maxed out Ishtar, then I am going to rip him a new one if he tries to point me. That's what I assume, or at least used to be able to assume.





That's a pisspoor assumption, especially if you have no combat experience...it's much along the same lines as a newbie jumping into Egghelende that he's invincible because he's in a battleship (as I did, once upon a time).

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2016-02-29 18:41:10 UTC
now we have 3 day old titan pilots, and endgame sov is fought in interceptors.
Something is seriously backwards here.



But seriously, with all the hurfing over monocles, which gave no advantage whatsoever.... where is the outrage over skill injectors?

Skill injectors are the literal definition of Pay2Win, yet theres no jita statue shooting protests, like there were with the monocle.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#25 - 2016-02-29 19:02:54 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
now we have 3 day old titan pilots, and endgame sov is fought in interceptors.

You should really just inject for Interceptors and small guns (or rocket/light missile). Confirmed.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2016-02-29 19:05:37 UTC
Droidster wrote:
The guy had a lot of bad training in his original character


Idiot player... "bad training" there is no such thing.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-02-29 19:08:53 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Droidster wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:


your concern is just a small part in getting intel and most of the time irrelevant. i always assume people have more SP than me and decide to fight with their ship/fit.



You assume 8-day-old players have more SP than you?

You assume 6-month-old players have more SP than you?

You assume 1-year-old players have more SP than you?

Let me tell you what I ASSUME (or at least could assume before skill injectors): if a player is less than 1 year old and I am flying a maxed out Ishtar, then I am going to rip him a new one if he tries to point me. That's what I assume, or at least used to be able to assume.

Unfortunately, that assumption is no longer true because of skill injectors, because now we can have 1-year-old characters with 100 million skill points.


i don't check their DOB, i check what are they flying mostly and their fits, understand? when you are hunting or if you are plexing, things go fast and i won't waste my time checking their DOB.


Before skill injectors I only checked the kill board if the other pilot is older than 1.5 years. Anyone less than that has (or at least HAD) a low probability of creating a threat to me by themself. I suppose if you want to go "checking the fit" on every 6-month character you run across, you could do that, but for me that is a time waster.
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-02-29 20:45:49 UTC
age was never really reliable form of checking sp to begin with, just saying.

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
Memphis Baas
#29 - 2016-02-29 21:01:00 UTC
Droidster wrote:
The only guy in local was less than 30 days old, an alt spy of some kind obviously.
[...]
I am thinking maybe it is like a dev cheating or something.
[...]
I had seen the Ishkur, I just assumed it was abandoned.
[...]
Let me tell you what I ASSUME: if a player is less than 1 year old and I am flying a maxed out Ishtar, then I am going to rip him a new one.


Your thought processes are always fascinating, Mr. Droidster.

Interesting that you assume "devs cheating" right away, and that a maxed-out Ishtar has no counters that can be trained in less than 1 year. And also, that the guy couldn't possibly have had any friends in fleet just itching to spike local and come for you as you sat there tackled in your maxed-out Ishtar.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-02-29 21:19:33 UTC
Droidster wrote:


Let me tell you what I ASSUME (or at least could assume before skill injectors): if a player is less than 1 year old and I am flying a maxed out Ishtar, then I am going to rip him a new one if he tries to point me. That's what I assume, or at least used to be able to assume.


This is the kind of thing one would only assume if they had no practical PvP experience, in which case it is pretty much a sure thing that there are plenty of 1-year old, "organically grown" characters who could cheerfully disassemble your maxed-out Ishtar with about as much difficulty as tying their shoelaces.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#31 - 2016-02-29 21:53:18 UTC
ugh zug wrote:
age was never really reliable form of checking sp to begin with, just saying.


This. A player could be 6 years old, but took a 5 year break.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2016-02-29 23:50:15 UTC
ugh zug wrote:
age was never really reliable form of checking sp to begin with, just saying.


Uh, actually (before skill injectors) it was since age (used to) set a hard limit on the maximum number of SP a player could have.

The absolute maximum SP/hour is 2700, but for a new player who needs to train different classes of skills 1800 SP/hour is typical. There are 8760 hours in a year. So, an absolute maximum number of SP for a one-year old was 23,652,000 SP and the typical case is 15,768,000.
Memphis Baas
#33 - 2016-03-01 00:03:41 UTC
The point is that you can get to any single (subcapital) ship within a year, so when you see that ship in the overview, target-locking you:

- Character age doesn't tell you much about the ship's capabilities, and
- You've just wasted 10 seconds of DPS to even look.

You know, smart opponents are very dangerous. Very! So what you can do to figure out how smart the other guy is, before the fight even starts, is check out their bio. If they mis-spell = they are dumb. If they have a dumb bio = they are dumb. So always check bio before engaging anyone, it will save your life.

And, bonus, the bio tab is right next to the employment history tab! For convenience.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#34 - 2016-03-01 00:09:09 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Quote:
estimate how dangerous someone can be based on their age


I am old and not dangerous. Your estimates would not work for me.

Ha +1
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#35 - 2016-03-01 01:27:56 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Droidster wrote:
ugh zug wrote:
age was never really reliable form of checking sp to begin with, just saying.


Uh, actually (before skill injectors) it was since age (used to) set a hard limit on the maximum number of SP a player could have.

The absolute maximum SP/hour is 2700, but for a new player who needs to train different classes of skills 1800 SP/hour is typical. There are 8760 hours in a year. So, an absolute maximum number of SP for a one-year old was 23,652,000 SP and the typical case is 15,768,000.


The point they're really trying to impress upon you is that 24 million SP is more than enough for a competent pilot to dunk your Ishtar.

Especially... your... Ishtar.

At best, age only ever gave you an absolute ceiling of how many SPs they might have, but that has never said terribly much about how dangerous someone is. You can have a 2004 character with tons of SP and still be a total newb. ;)

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#36 - 2016-03-01 02:15:49 UTC
Droidster wrote:
One side effect of injectors is that now you can no longer estimate how dangerous someone can be based on their age.

Today I rolled into one system and found a nice level 4 unrated complex. It was low sec, but the only guy in local was less than 30 days old, an alt spy of some kind obviously.

So, I warp into the plex and see yellow wrecks. Hmm, that's weird, did somebody else start the site and leave? I make my way into the second room.

HOLY COW ! It's the "alt" in an Ishkur in my base killing my doodz !!! Shocked

Luckily, I was in an Ishtar, so I was wearing the daddy pants and could chase him off. I messaged him later: how is that you are a new player, but you are flying an Ishkur? (Now, I am thinking maybe it is like a dev cheating or something, hmmm....) Answer: skill injectors. The guy had a lot of bad training in his original character, so he started a brand new character and used to skill injectors to transfer all the points from his old character into his new character in a more focused manner.

Result: 8-day-old character with enough skill points to fly an Ishkur and do level 4 complexes.




Oh good. Noobs are not noobs any more meaning I'm embarrassed less when I get my ass handed to me.

SP trading is pro-PVP move possibly. That plus the free clones.

Now if only they can do something about OGB, AFK cloaking, and local.

(Yeah I'm trolling)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#37 - 2016-03-01 03:30:06 UTC
Droidster wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Droidster wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:


your concern is just a small part in getting intel and most of the time irrelevant. i always assume people have more SP than me and decide to fight with their ship/fit.



You assume 8-day-old players have more SP than you?

You assume 6-month-old players have more SP than you?

You assume 1-year-old players have more SP than you?

Let me tell you what I ASSUME (or at least could assume before skill injectors): if a player is less than 1 year old and I am flying a maxed out Ishtar, then I am going to rip him a new one if he tries to point me. That's what I assume, or at least used to be able to assume.

Unfortunately, that assumption is no longer true because of skill injectors, because now we can have 1-year-old characters with 100 million skill points.


i don't check their DOB, i check what are they flying mostly and their fits, understand? when you are hunting or if you are plexing, things go fast and i won't waste my time checking their DOB.


Before skill injectors I only checked the kill board if the other pilot is older than 1.5 years. Anyone less than that has (or at least HAD) a low probability of creating a threat to me by themself. I suppose if you want to go "checking the fit" on every 6-month character you run across, you could do that, but for me that is a time waster.


i hope every newbro won't follow your style, because imho, that's the dumbest and unsafe way to play risk-averse. if you want to play the risk-averse way, then do it properly, do your due diligence always. you are under estimating people, a covert cyno alt can be trained within way less than 1.5 years and you were just lucky that the ishkur was also s2pid, because it could have kicked your ass if it was really hunting you.

Just Add Water
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#38 - 2016-03-01 05:49:16 UTC
So... does this mean the children have been officially saved?
Just curious.
Not that it's going to change my habits much.
When not chasing rabbits I like to poke bears with a stick.
I used to check to see how old the bear was to make sure I wasn't deliberately kicking in a cub's teeth when it tried to bite me.
I can skip that step guilt free thanks to skill injectors.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2016-03-01 06:05:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Droidster wrote:
ugh zug wrote:
age was never really reliable form of checking sp to begin with, just saying.


Uh, actually (before skill injectors) it was since age (used to) set a hard limit on the maximum number of SP a player could have.

The absolute maximum SP/hour is 2700, but for a new player who needs to train different classes of skills 1800 SP/hour is typical. There are 8760 hours in a year. So, an absolute maximum number of SP for a one-year old was 23,652,000 SP and the typical case is 15,768,000.


And total SP is also meaningless, because on one hand, if it's all focused in one kind of ship, it can take a very brief amount of time to build up all the SP needed to max it out quite easily. On the other, even just the ability to fit a PVP ship, with no T2 on it whatsoever, is more than enough for a knowledgeable PVP'er with an alt less than a month old. I know, because I've done it on my alt Milana, who was less than a month old at the time, with a meta-4 fit Incursus against a 2012 t2 fit Raptor, and a few others.

So no, toon age is no measure of ability, and it never has been.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#40 - 2016-03-01 06:31:43 UTC
Droidster wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:


your concern is just a small part in getting intel and most of the time irrelevant. i always assume people have more SP than me and decide to fight with their ship/fit.



You assume 8-day-old players have more SP than you?

You assume 6-month-old players have more SP than you?

You assume 1-year-old players have more SP than you?

Let me tell you what I ASSUME (or at least could assume before skill injectors): if a player is less than 1 year old and I am flying a maxed out Ishtar, then I am going to rip him a new one if he tries to point me. That's what I assume, or at least used to be able to assume.

Unfortunately, that assumption is no longer true because of skill injectors, because now we can have 1-year-old characters with 100 million skill points.


I once made the mistake of thinking that someone who's been playing for 12 years might actually know a thing or two about EVE and it's basic mechanics.

We both know how very, very wrong I was.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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