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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Basic Mechanics check

Author
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#1 - 2016-02-26 18:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Ok, So I know that the cloaking animation does not reflect the actual cloaking mechanic. Cloaking is instant, even though it takes about 3 seconds for the visual effect to occur.

Is there a similar thing happening with gates?

I was warping around in a travel fit inty and saw a svipul and sabre at a gate. I waited for them to move away, and went through. On the other side they followed me. I beat them to the next gate of course, went through, and started warping to station, found myself in a pod, and safey warped to station.

As I went through the gate, I was watching them decelerate towards the gate. On the other side, I clicked warp-to before the gate sounded off someone else entering system. So I thought I was in the clear. But I double click warp to, and the second click was in a pod. So the svipul one shot me, but I got my pod away before the sabre dropped a bubble.

Is the gate cycle sound and animation not indicative or did I just get lagged? I'm thinking I did everything right, but maybe I screwed up and just don't know it. Thank you.

edit- oops meant to post to GD.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Annemariela Antonela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2016-02-26 18:27:10 UTC
Whenever I die, it's because of lag.

“Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.”

― Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon

Memphis Baas
#3 - 2016-02-26 19:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Everything is "instant" +/- your internet ping time to the Iceland servers (typically 50-250ms), plugged into the server's 1-second clock ticks.

So you could push your button to warp, have that command take 1/4 of a second to get to the server, where the command gets added to the queue during the current 1-second tick, and gets processed and sent back to you the next tick.

They will only perceive that you're there once the server signals that you're uncloaked, and their command to lock you could also take the current tick or the next tick, depending on their lag and reaction time.

Basically, it's quantum time; things that appear simultaneous are not, things that were sequential appear simultaneous. For maximum safety you want your align time to be under 2 seconds; server ticks tend to round things up to that interval. It's why you see charts like this show everything longer than 2 seconds in red.
Memphis Baas
#4 - 2016-02-26 19:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
gfldex
#5 - 2016-02-26 20:01:58 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Everything is "instant" +/- your internet ping time to the Iceland servers (typically 50-250ms), plugged into the server's 1-second clock ticks.


The servers are in London. Iceland got one undersee cable that is well known for it's unreliability. Getting spare parts to Iceland can take two weeks. Iceland is one of the last places one would build a datacenter.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2016-02-26 20:10:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
gfldex wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Everything is "instant" +/- your internet ping time to the Iceland servers (typically 50-250ms), plugged into the server's 1-second clock ticks.


The servers are in London. Iceland got one undersee cable that is well known for it's unreliability. Getting spare parts to Iceland can take two weeks. Iceland is one of the last places one would build a datacenter.

actually they are moving the old server to iceland once the current upgrade and move is complete ,
tq will still live in London i believe but in a more modern data center.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#7 - 2016-02-26 20:31:22 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:


Basically, it's quantum time; things that appear simultaneous are not, things that were sequential appear simultaneous. For maximum safety you want your align time to be under 2 seconds; server ticks tend to round things up to that interval. It's why you see charts like this show everything longer than 2 seconds in red.


Yea, I was in a travel fit inty. Align was under 1.8 according to EFT with my skills, etc. I sounds like it must have been lag.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-02-27 06:56:25 UTC
It's been my experience that some people go through gates faster than others.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Cherri Minoa
Serendipity Technologies Inc
#9 - 2016-02-27 09:39:36 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:


Basically, it's quantum time; things that appear simultaneous are not, things that were sequential appear simultaneous. For maximum safety you want your align time to be under 2 seconds; server ticks tend to round things up to that interval. It's why you see charts like this show everything longer than 2 seconds in red.


Yea, I was in a travel fit inty. Align was under 1.8 according to EFT with my skills, etc. I sounds like it must have been lag.


If your align time in that ship is < 1.8 secs and you didn't screw anything up in any way then yes, it was lag. If everything was running "correctly" a ship that aligns in under 2 secs is unlockable.

Nothing in EVE is ever 100% certain (which adds to the fun of course) but I have to say that you were exceptionally unlucky. I live in null and am constantly jumping gate camps in a travel fit Ares with an align time of 1.67 secs. I have never been locked despite doing it on an almost daily basis.

"If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson

Helios Anduath
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-02-29 20:59:00 UTC
Cherri Minoa

If your align time in that ship is < 1.8 secs and you didn't screw anything up in any way then yes, it was lag. If everything was running "correctly" [b wrote:
a ship that aligns in under 2 secs is unlockable[/b].

Nothing in EVE is ever 100% certain (which adds to the fun of course) but I have to say that you were exceptionally unlucky. I live in null and am constantly jumping gate camps in a travel fit Ares with an align time of 1.67 secs. I have never been locked despite doing it on an almost daily basis.


Incorrect I am afraid. With a high enough scan res, low enough latency and fast enough reactions a 2s-to-warp ship can be caught. A stiletto can easily achieve a scan res of 5600 mm, which gives a lock time of about 0.4s on a frigate, leaving 0.6s for latency and reactions. This infographic explains it quite well and the age old article that everyone links also does say that locking sub-2s is possible. If you want to test it, grab a Stiletto and a Griffin (fitted with max ReSEBOs with scan res scripts) and go to town.

OP - your lag should play no part in whether you get caught or not as you do not start aligning (and do not lose gatecloak) until the tick after you give the warp command. All your latency can affect is which tick you start to align in.

Now, in your case, your ship was not sub 2s anyway. Looking at your KB, I see a Malediction loss to a Svipul where you had 3x Nanos and 1x WCS in the lows. That gives an align of 2.1s, for a 3-second warp. That is quite easy to catch with a Svipul. Get below 2s to warp and you are much harder to catch, but as I have said you are not truly un-catchable.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#11 - 2016-03-01 00:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Hrm, I had originally 3 IS IIs but someone told me to drop those for nanos, without mentioning the caveat that the nanos increase my align time. I should have checked it myself, but for some reason It seemed to me that 3 nanos + 2 SPEH would be enough to get under 2.

Plugging the correct values into pyfa confirms what you said, and interestingly, even if I swapped out the WCS for a 4th nano, my align would still be over 2.

Meh, thank you for the correction.

So 2 IEs with 2 SPEH = 1.99 align. Wondering the best way to utilize those two extra lows now. Damage resistance or speed.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Helios Anduath
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-03-01 00:19:16 UTC
Personally, I always aim to be at 1.8s align, of 1.9 bare minimum. that accounts for any futzing with variable tick processing time as too close to 2s and you seem to be able to fall over into a 3s-to-warp.

The Ares seems to be one of the better travel/explo ceptors but others do work.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2016-03-01 00:24:11 UTC
Remote sebos do not suffer from diminishing returns. With a properly fit T3 booster friend you can get most ships cruiser and down to nearly insta lock anything.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#14 - 2016-03-01 00:27:02 UTC
Alright thank you. Need to rethink my travel ceptor fittings.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Helios Anduath
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-03-01 00:53:26 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Remote sebos do not suffer from diminishing returns. With a properly fit T3 booster friend you can get most ships cruiser and down to nearly insta lock anything.



Remote assistance mods suffer from stacking penalties if the attribute is stacking penalised. Scan resolution is, so the effect of ReSEBOs are stacking penalised. They are just more effective than local SEBOs so you can get a higher scan res.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-03-01 15:53:05 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Ok, So I know that the cloaking animation does not reflect the actual cloaking mechanic. Cloaking is instant, even though it takes about 3 seconds for the visual effect to occur.

Is there a similar thing happening with gates?

I was warping around in a travel fit inty and saw a svipul and sabre at a gate. I waited for them to move away, and went through. On the other side they followed me. I beat them to the next gate of course, went through, and started warping to station, found myself in a pod, and safey warped to station.

As I went through the gate, I was watching them decelerate towards the gate. On the other side, I clicked warp-to before the gate sounded off someone else entering system. So I thought I was in the clear. But I double click warp to, and the second click was in a pod. So the svipul one shot me, but I got my pod away before the sabre dropped a bubble.

Is the gate cycle sound and animation not indicative or did I just get lagged? I'm thinking I did everything right, but maybe I screwed up and just don't know it. Thank you.

edit- oops meant to post to GD.
Second most probable explanation is that it took you more time than the svipul to jump and load the new system. So the svipul, though landing on gate after you, was in the new system before you. That would also explain you not hearing gate flash (though, tbh, EVE sound effects aren't 100% spot-on in my experience).

First most probable explanation, no offense intended, is that you missed something. Can happen easily in a tense situation.

Anyways, next time I'd suggest to not rely just on your warp speed or align time to evade. Start bouncing moons, make safespots, wait for the right opportunity to slip away without them chasing right behind you.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-03-01 16:28:10 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Alright thank you. Need to rethink my travel ceptor fittings.

Inertials till under 2s, then damage control, shield tank in mids (to be able to survive smart bombers at gates), hyperspatial T2 rigs. That's how my travel ceptors are fit.

I'm my own NPC alt.