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Hictor focused scripts are broken.

Author
Zzzzleepyhead
Honestly We didnt know
#21 - 2016-02-25 12:22:03 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:
Lachesis can scramble with true sansha warp scrambler up to 27k without links. Huggin can double web up to 78k without links. Maybe those ships should be nerfed as well ?


No. Those ships can barely break 70k EHP if fit fully tanked. You could kill a lach/arazu with a proper setup before his gang blobs the hell out of you (assuming he's alone initially and not sitting on a gate camp). A huggin webbing you at 78km is a non issue since he doesn't have you pointed. Just warp away, unless you want to die.

The other funny thing is you bring up a lach/arazu and say it can scram out 27km without links. With links, and heated, its at 33.4km range. Whats HIC scram range again for a meta HIC scram you ask? 32km? Oh well.. so a ship that sports 150-200k EHP also has a scram almost on par than a linked recon. Seems fair. So a ship is better at warp disruption than a ship specialized in warp disruption. Going for t2 or faction, and a HIC scram reaches 40km. PERFECT SENSE.

Bottom line is, things like this exist in gate camps, and will only get worse as more people train into them.

[Devoter, Scram all the things]
1600mm Steel Plates II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Internal Force Field Array I
Energized Armor Layering Membrane II

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
10MN Afterburner II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script
Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script
Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

In a fleet, before links, it has 184k EHP and can hold 3 dudes on a gate pretty easily for his friends to blap without risking anything.

Show me an arazu/lach that can scram 3 targets at once (from 32-40km away), and still sport that kind of tank. I'll wait.


Super uneducted response:
HICs can't be repped, and if you shoot it enough it will need to bring the points off you to get repped which gives you time to warp away.
Lach/Huginn can be repped indefinitely while pointing/webbing you so can sport a much higher tank in the long run

Less QQ, more pew pew.

and may the longcat, decending with the holy light, cleanse the world with fire and lazor beams.

Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Something Really Pretentious
#22 - 2016-02-25 12:36:18 UTC
ShadowPewl wrote:
It allows a player with very little skill, without links i might add, to sit zero on a gate.

No skill, nah
It takes 71 days just to sit in it, and if you're a normal person you'll get experience on other ships during that minimum 71 days.
And after that 71 days, you won't be even close to use a HIC to it's fullest potential (check mastery 4 for a good idea of what time it takes to be proficient).

Salty thread Lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#23 - 2016-02-25 15:11:15 UTC
Zzzzleepyhead wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:
Lachesis can scramble with true sansha warp scrambler up to 27k without links. Huggin can double web up to 78k without links. Maybe those ships should be nerfed as well ?


No. Those ships can barely break 70k EHP if fit fully tanked. You could kill a lach/arazu with a proper setup before his gang blobs the hell out of you (assuming he's alone initially and not sitting on a gate camp). A huggin webbing you at 78km is a non issue since he doesn't have you pointed. Just warp away, unless you want to die.

The other funny thing is you bring up a lach/arazu and say it can scram out 27km without links. With links, and heated, its at 33.4km range. Whats HIC scram range again for a meta HIC scram you ask? 32km? Oh well.. so a ship that sports 150-200k EHP also has a scram almost on par than a linked recon. Seems fair. So a ship is better at warp disruption than a ship specialized in warp disruption. Going for t2 or faction, and a HIC scram reaches 40km. PERFECT SENSE.

Bottom line is, things like this exist in gate camps, and will only get worse as more people train into them.

[Devoter, Scram all the things]
1600mm Steel Plates II
1600mm Steel Plates II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Thermal Hardener II
Internal Force Field Array I
Energized Armor Layering Membrane II

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
10MN Afterburner II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script
Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script
Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

In a fleet, before links, it has 184k EHP and can hold 3 dudes on a gate pretty easily for his friends to blap without risking anything.

Show me an arazu/lach that can scram 3 targets at once (from 32-40km away), and still sport that kind of tank. I'll wait.


Super uneducted response:
HICs can't be repped, and if you shoot it enough it will need to bring the points off you to get repped which gives you time to warp away.
Lach/Huginn can be repped indefinitely while pointing/webbing you so can sport a much higher tank in the long run


There are very few if any ships in the game that could chew through 150-200k EHP while under fire from multiple opponents. Assuming a gate camp scenario. Maybe a nightmare. But it would be best to just burn back to gate instead of trying to wittle down a 180k EHP AB cruiser with battleship sized guns. On a battlecruiser or any other non-sansha ship once you uncloak youre dead unless you fit an oversized prop mod. Scram prevents me from mwding back to gate or from using my MJD, so i have 0 counterplay. At least with old HIC focused points or even instalock arazu with 70km points i could MJD away from and escape. Which i have done successfully in the past to get around gatecamps. Other more well prepared camps would still get me if they had multiple ships dedicated to scramming to cover the whole gate. Now they dont need multiple ships to cover a gate, they just need 1 HIC.

My main concern is not within fleet battles (where HICs are fairly balanced by not recieving reps) but gate camps. I have no problem with HICs being used as anti kiter. But i dont like the fact their range is extremely oppressive in gate camps and eliminates any counterplay, especially in ships larger than cruisers which really didnt need a nerf to movement/navigation. The one module that made roaming in a BS or BC managable just became useless when a HIC is on gate.
C11H17NO3
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#24 - 2016-02-25 16:07:38 UTC
Orhruses easily kite outside of 40 km with faction long point.
Loradan Illstari
Illstari Industries
#25 - 2016-02-25 17:42:05 UTC
Thank god something finally brought the kiting down. Get rekt, kiting meta. We need more ships with extra long scrams. L2AB.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2016-02-26 05:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
The other funny thing is you bring up a lach/arazu and say it can scram out 27km without links. With links, and heated, its at 33.4km range. Whats HIC scram range again for a meta HIC scram you ask? 32km? Oh well.. so a ship that sports 150-200k EHP also has a scram almost on par than a linked recon. Seems fair. So a ship is better at warp disruption than a ship specialized in warp disruption. Going for t2 or faction, and a HIC scram reaches 40km. PERFECT SENSE.

Initially I was going to write this, but then I thought that while recons keep role of long pointing, HICs get to scram better. Kinda ensures that both have a role, although yeah, EHP difference, and sometimes damage, are quite different.

For the record, entire point of HICs is warp disruption as well.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#27 - 2016-02-26 08:55:51 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
pushdogg wrote:
I see no problem as that ship can't kill anything...

I have no horse in this race and I'm not taking a position on this argument, but that was an incredibly ignorant statement. 1: Your statement assumes a game where nobody flies cooperatively (just the opposite, flying cooperatively is the entire point of the game). So whether this individual ship can kill anything is irrelevant. He even made a direct statement to that effect.

Quote:
...for his friends to blap


2: What the ship can or cannot kill wasn't the point of the poster you replied to. His stance was about the tank and range a HIC has, verses the tank and range of a dedicated recon cruiser. If you want to refute an argument he's trying to make, that's the area you need to focus on.

If you want to at least appear attentive, I'd advise you to refresh yourself in the old threads when this feature was introduced. This very topic was discussed at length, so you could at the very least get caught up to speed and be ready to debate the merits and consequences of this system and possible alternatives.


Ignorant is assuming that the person pointed doesn't have backup. This argument can go both ways over and over again, which leaves my point still standing.

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