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Capital Re-balancing: Module weak-points
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Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-02-24 01:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ligraph
Was reading over the cap re-balancing threads, had an idea.

This was inspired by watching Star Wars and seeing X-wings fly into superstructures, target a weak point, and blow the superstructure up.

Thus:
Cap ships (and maybe battleships) have weak points depending on their modules. These modules have very small sig radius's, so if I'm understating sig radius right, only smaller ships or anti-subcap weapons would be able to target them.

Shooting the weak point(s) would disable the module if all the weak points were destroyed, and hamper it if only some were destroyed.

There could also be weak-points for non-modules, like sensors, shields, armor, cap, etc.

Example:
A Capital Shield Booster would have X number of weak points, which would have a sig radius of Y. This Y would vary depending on the ship, so it would be larger on a Titan than on a Carrier.

Let's say that there are 4 weak points. If all 4 were destroyed, then the shield booster would not function, if 3 were destroyed, it would function at 1/4 efficiency, if 2 were destroyed, it would function at 1/2 efficiency, if 1 was destroyed it would function at 3/4 efficiency.

The weak points would gradually repair themselves over time, there would probably modules to accelerate this.

The signature radius would be set so that for smaller ships (carriers, dreads), you would need either target painters or a small ship (frig). For a titan, cruisers and maybe battlecruisers would be able to hit it. But it would have much more HP on a titan.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#2 - 2016-02-24 03:11:25 UTC
May the juice be with you.

You are not the first to come up with that and usually I would just say no I give you something to think about instead.

A frigate in EVE has an average lenght of 100 - 150m and while our impression might be that they are small and manouverable a X-Wing has a lenght of 15m and a wingspan of 18-ish meters.

How would on of our New Eden frigates fit into the deathstar "canion" to throw torpedos down the ventilator shaft?

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3 - 2016-02-24 03:45:12 UTC
Ignoring the physics involved, this works in certain games because they are skill shooters, not because of the weak points themselves. EVE is not a skill shooter, it's an RNG shooter and therefore weak points do not create a good game mechanic because you still simply lock and shoot, only now you magically bypass their defences to damage their modules directly.

There is nothing they can do to defend against it.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-02-24 04:50:33 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
May the juice be with you.

You are not the first to come up with that and usually I would just say no I give you something to think about instead.

A frigate in EVE has an average lenght of 100 - 150m and while our impression might be that they are small and manouverable a X-Wing has a lenght of 15m and a wingspan of 18-ish meters.

How would on of our New Eden frigates fit into the deathstar "canion" to throw torpedos down the ventilator shaft?

Ok, small compared to Caps.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Ignoring the physics involved, this works in certain games because they are skill shooters, not because of the weak points themselves. EVE is not a skill shooter, it's an RNG shooter and therefore weak points do not create a good game mechanic because you still simply lock and shoot, only now you magically bypass their defences to damage their modules directly.

There is nothing they can do to defend against it.


Yeah there is, bring a fleet with subcaps or fit some anti-subcap weapons. This seems to fit with CCPs re-balancing goals to give subcaps a way to damage caps, and I (personally) like this more than pure damage.

It could cause problems with PvE, idk, this was from a purely fleet pvp standpoint.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2016-02-24 04:57:31 UTC
No you are not understanding sig right

Ignoring all the obvious issues with this idea that ate pointed out every time it comes up your particular one is a fether nerf to missiles

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Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2016-02-24 13:18:45 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
Was reading over the cap re-balancing threads, had an idea.

This was inspired by watching Star Wars and seeing X-wings fly into superstructures, target a weak point, and blow the superstructure up.

Thus:
Cap ships (and maybe battleships) have weak points depending on their modules. These modules have very small sig radius's, so if I'm understating sig radius right, only smaller ships would be able to target them.

Shooting the weak point(s) would disable the module if all the weak points were destroyed, and hamper it if only some were destroyed.

There could also be weak-points for non-modules, like sensors, shields, armor, cap, etc.

Example:
A Capital Shield Booster would have X number of weak points, which would have a sig radius of Y. This Y would vary depending on the ship, so it would be larger on a Titan than on a Carrier.

Let's say that there are 4 weak points. If all 4 were destroyed, then the shield booster would not function, if 3 were destroyed, it would function at 1/4 efficiency, if 2 were destroyed, it would function at 1/2 efficiency, if 1 was destroyed it would function at 3/4 efficiency.

The weak points would gradually repair themselves over time, there would probably modules to accelerate this.

The signature radius would be set so that for smaller ships (carriers, dreads), you would need either target painters or a small ship (frig). For a titan, cruisers and maybe battlecruisers would be able to hit it. But it would have much more HP on a titan.


If you wanna see a deathstar get´s blown up by frigates go and watch starwars.
-1
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-02-24 18:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ligraph
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
No you are not understanding sig right

Ignoring all the obvious issues with this idea that ate pointed out every time it comes up your particular one is a fether nerf to missiles

Ouch, yeah, I didn't even realize that. IDK, maybe make it so that ships can only lock the weak points if their scan res is greater than the point's sig.

EDIT: that wouldn't work. hmm

Tabyll Altol wrote:


If you wanna see a deathstar get´s blown up by frigates go and watch starwars.
-1


A Frigate would bever be able to blow up a cap. Hull and Armor wouldn't have any weak points.

1 Frigate by itself would barely scratch a cap's weak points. It might be able to take out one and keep it from repairing. But 1 weak point is like having 3/4 shield regen, or 3/4 damage with 1 gun, so it's next to nothing. And if the cap can keep the frigate off of the point for a few seconds (5-15), it'll repair.

Now, if you had a fleet of ~25 destroyers all blasting a titan's weak points, they would be able to do some damage. Maybe take out it's propulsion mod, reduce it's cap regen, take a warp scrambler offline, and maybe damage the doomsday. But I don't think they would ever be able to blow it up.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-02-24 18:58:19 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
No you are not understanding sig right

Ignoring all the obvious issues with this idea that ate pointed out every time it comes up your particular one is a fether nerf to missiles

Ouch, yeah, I didn't even realize that. IDK, maybe make it so that ships can only lock the weak points if their scan res is greater than the point's sig.

EDIT: that wouldn't work. hmm

EDIT 2: I think the original idea might work. From Evloedia:
Quote:

The other factor that will decrease missile damage is Signature Radius. The Scourge Missile previously used has a Explosion Radius of 125m - if this missile is fired against a target with a smaller Signature than its Explosion Radius, damage will again be reduced, as only a small portion of the explosion is affecting the target. Although if your missile hits a target whose signature radius is greater than the explosion radius of your missile then the explosion velocity of your missile is increased by the same multiple.

Tabyll Altol wrote:


If you wanna see a deathstar get´s blown up by frigates go and watch starwars.
-1


A Frigate would bever be able to blow up a cap. Hull and Armor wouldn't have any weak points.

1 Frigate by itself would barely scratch a cap's weak points. It might be able to take out one and keep it from repairing. But 1 weak point is like having 3/4 shield regen, or 3/4 damage with 1 gun, so it's next to nothing. And if the cap can keep the frigate off of the point for a few seconds (5-15), it'll repair.

Now, if you had a fleet of ~25 destroyers all blasting a titan's weak points, they would be able to do some damage. Maybe take out it's propulsion mod, reduce it's cap regen, take a warp scrambler offline, and maybe damage the doomsday. But I don't think they would ever be able to blow it up.