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30b fully collaterized loan @ 1.9%, 6 months
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noobs market orders
nOObs with Miners
#41 - 2016-02-20 07:57:17 UTC
wreck 21 wrote:
Edwin Rothbard wrote:
Was the investment buying 50 Dominix Quafe Skins hoping to get rich? They sell about 1 per day in jita. Adding 50 of them to sell orders will crash the price hard. You could crash 14 of them into the Jita buy orders but after that it's a race to the bottom with the price. I seriously doubt 30b can be recouped from the collateral in any reasonable period of time. I hope your "investors" like flying skinned Domis!


I bought them with the intention of holding them long term. The loan was taken with good intentions (you'll have to take my word on that, but it doesn't really matter either way), as a way of freeing up my investment without giving up the skins. If skins had sold a bit faster than they are, even a little, I'd probably wouldn't have defaulted. I had to ask myself whether I would buy 50 quafe domi skins for 30b if it was offered to me, and the answer was no (even with the guilt of defaulting on top of that, which I do feel...honestly)

Sorry for the inconvenience, I hope you all get your isk back.



Would you buy your honor back for the 5 odd bill id expect you to lose on the skins?
Dextrome Thorphan
#42 - 2016-02-20 21:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
wreck 21 wrote:
Edwin Rothbard wrote:
Was the investment buying 50 Dominix Quafe Skins hoping to get rich? They sell about 1 per day in jita. Adding 50 of them to sell orders will crash the price hard. You could crash 14 of them into the Jita buy orders but after that it's a race to the bottom with the price. I seriously doubt 30b can be recouped from the collateral in any reasonable period of time. I hope your "investors" like flying skinned Domis!

The loan was taken with good intentions (you'll have to take my word on that, but it doesn't really matter either way), as a way of freeing up my investment without giving up the skins. - I had to ask myself whether I would buy 50 quafe domi skins for 30b if it was offered to me, and the answer was no.


If "asking yourself if you'd like your own collateral back or just keep the money you borrowed" was even an option to you, I really doubt those good intentions... Roll

So, you basically just sold 50 domi quafe skins to us for 30bill... grats

wreck 21 wrote:
interest paid.

Vanaunge is looking to be replaced, if anyone is interested in investing 10b for 5 months @ 1.9%


And I suspect Vanaunge was just an alt then. Straight
Dextrome Thorphan
#43 - 2016-02-20 21:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
Droodid wrote:
I'll take the ISK please/option 2, Grendell. I would have taken the skins, but now everybody knows what the collateral is I'm not interested!


I suppose I'll do the same as Droodid.
wreck 21
Doomheim
#44 - 2016-02-21 20:55:30 UTC
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
wreck 21 wrote:
Edwin Rothbard wrote:
Was the investment buying 50 Dominix Quafe Skins hoping to get rich? They sell about 1 per day in jita. Adding 50 of them to sell orders will crash the price hard. You could crash 14 of them into the Jita buy orders but after that it's a race to the bottom with the price. I seriously doubt 30b can be recouped from the collateral in any reasonable period of time. I hope your "investors" like flying skinned Domis!

The loan was taken with good intentions (you'll have to take my word on that, but it doesn't really matter either way), as a way of freeing up my investment without giving up the skins. - I had to ask myself whether I would buy 50 quafe domi skins for 30b if it was offered to me, and the answer was no.


If "asking yourself if you'd like your own collateral back or just keep the money you borrowed" was even an option to you, I really doubt those good intentions... Roll

So, you basically just sold 50 domi quafe skins to us for 30bill... grats


I used the skins as my collateral for the previous loan too, and that ran for the full 6 months. Why would did I pay ANY interest if I didn't initially intend on paying the loan back? What did I have to gain by paying interest?

Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
wreck 21 wrote:
interest paid.

Vanaunge is looking to be replaced, if anyone is interested in investing 10b for 5 months @ 1.9%


And I suspect Vanaunge was just an alt then. Straight


why would I need to use an alt when there was people climbing over each other to offer up the isk? Even if I did use an alt, why would I use one who's active in the market forums (and in game)? Why would I risk ruining the reputation of that alt? The simple answer is that it wasn't an alt.
Dextrome Thorphan
#45 - 2016-02-22 09:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
wreck 21 wrote:
I used the skins as my collateral for the previous loan too, and that ran for the full 6 months. Why would did I pay ANY interest if I didn't initially intend on paying the loan back? What did I have to gain by paying interest?

Well you made the first interest payment so that your alt who bid the first 10bill could be replaced by a real person.

wreck 21 wrote:
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
wreck 21 wrote:
interest paid.
Vanaunge is looking to be replaced, if anyone is interested in investing 10b for 5 months @ 1.9%

And I suspect Vanaunge was just an alt then. Straight

why would I need to use an alt when there was people climbing over each other to offer up the isk? Even if I did use an alt, why would I use one who's active in the market forums (and in game)? Why would I risk ruining the reputation of that alt? The simple answer is that it wasn't an alt.

There was 2 people; me and Ulisse Kromm. Would hardly call that people climbing over each :)
But I could be wrong about the alt thing, it's just very suspicious given your current behavior and attitude.
wreck 21
Doomheim
#46 - 2016-02-22 18:16:52 UTC
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:

There was 2 people; me and Ulisse Kromm. Would hardly call that people climbing over each :)
But I could be wrong about the alt thing, it's just very suspicious given your current behavior and attitude.


2 offers for isk within 2 hours of having posted the thread. Do you think I'd have struggled to fill the loan had vanauge not posted? If you hadn't offered up the isk, someone else would have. The previous loan of 50b was also filled within a few hours. Folks in MD being too eager to offer up isk for a secured loan is a far simpler explanation that doesn't require as many assumptions.
noobs market orders
nOObs with Miners
#47 - 2016-02-22 19:55:38 UTC
Blame who you like, defend what you like, you effectively sold your integrity.
Nouva MacGyver
Jedrzejczyk Integrated Capital
Minerva Exalt Holdings
#48 - 2016-02-22 20:30:02 UTC
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

And in this case, it was the power of choice. Could have absorbed this virtual loss unto yourself rather than passing the burden to others, no matter how lowly you think of investors readily willing to hand you ISK for a collateralised loan. But that would, of course, require a very basic level of integrity.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#49 - 2016-02-23 03:50:30 UTC
wreck 21 wrote:
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:

There was 2 people; me and Ulisse Kromm. Would hardly call that people climbing over each :)
But I could be wrong about the alt thing, it's just very suspicious given your current behavior and attitude.


2 offers for isk within 2 hours of having posted the thread. Do you think I'd have struggled to fill the loan had vanauge not posted? If you hadn't offered up the isk, someone else would have. The previous loan of 50b was also filled within a few hours. Folks in MD being too eager to offer up isk for a secured loan is a far simpler explanation that doesn't require as many assumptions.


bottom line you publically lost isk, and we all think its hilarious.

@JerryTPepridge
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#50 - 2016-02-23 13:57:42 UTC
Ok since I've only gotten 1 reply in terms of the 2 options I'll just go ahead and start liquidating. I'm not really worried about if I can get enough sales to cover the investments. I'm actually quite confident I'll get more, than what's needed. But like I said it will just take time.Smile

◄[♥]►3rd Party Service◄[♥]►

♥ Securing Peace of mind ♥
wreck 21
Doomheim
#51 - 2016-02-23 17:51:37 UTC
noobs market orders wrote:
Blame who you like, defend what you like, you effectively sold your integrity.


Nouva MacGyver wrote:
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

And in this case, it was the power of choice. Could have absorbed this virtual loss unto yourself rather than passing the burden to others, no matter how lowly you think of investors readily willing to hand you ISK for a collateralised loan. But that would, of course, require a very basic level of integrity.


If you guys get this worked up about someone defaulting on a 30b loan secured @ 110%, I can't imagine how you cope with witnessing actual abuse of power.
noobs market orders
nOObs with Miners
#52 - 2016-02-23 19:08:46 UTC
I'm not worked up at all, in fact I could t give a monkeys. I just struggle to understand your mentality.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#53 - 2016-02-23 22:55:39 UTC
noobs market orders wrote:
I'm not worked up at all, in fact I could t give a monkeys. I just struggle to understand your mentality.


Winners always struggle to understand losers, been that way for centuries

@JerryTPepridge
Dextrome Thorphan
#54 - 2016-02-24 14:42:58 UTC
Grendell wrote:
Ok since I've only gotten 1 reply in terms of the 2 options I'll just go ahead and start liquidating. I'm not really worried about if I can get enough sales to cover the investments. I'm actually quite confident I'll get more, than what's needed. But like I said it will just take time.Smile


Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
Droodid wrote:
I'll take the ISK please/option 2, Grendell. I would have taken the skins, but now everybody knows what the collateral is I'm not interested!


I suppose I'll do the same as Droodid.
Dextrome Thorphan
#55 - 2016-02-24 14:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
wreck 21 wrote:
If you guys get this worked up about someone defaulting on a 30b loan secured @ 110%, I can't imagine how you cope with witnessing actual abuse of power.


You're the only one that values that collateral at 110% though. If you'd actually want to liquidate it within less than a year's time, it would barely be worth 50%... But just keep telling yourself whatever makes you sleep at night. Roll

Just keep in mind you'll probably never get a loan again on that character or any other character associated with it.
(Smart call by the way, not using your main and just an alt in a NPC corp - which is just another indicator of how this was a scam from the start)
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
#56 - 2016-02-24 17:13:28 UTC
wreck 21 wrote:
If you guys get this worked up about someone defaulting on a 30b loan secured @ 110%, I can't imagine how you cope with witnessing actual abuse of power.


At no point was the collateral worth 110% of the loan amount. That's not your problem though as that falls on the investors for failure to perform their own due diligence. For those who think that was Grendell's job I would like to point out that in most real-world transactions involving escrow the escrow merely holds the goods, they do not provide due diligence. It's still up to the investors to do their homework.

Rothbard's Casino
wreck 21
Doomheim
#57 - 2016-02-24 18:17:13 UTC
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
wreck 21 wrote:
If you guys get this worked up about someone defaulting on a 30b loan secured @ 110%, I can't imagine how you cope with witnessing actual abuse of power.


You're the only one that values that collateral at 110% though. If you'd actually want to liquidate it within less than a year's time, it would barely be worth 50%... But just keep telling yourself whatever makes you sleep at night. Roll

Just keep in mind you'll probably never get a loan again on that character or any other character associated with it.
(Smart call by the way, not using your main and just an alt in a NPC corp - which is just another indicator of how this was a scam from the start)


If it was a scam from the start why did I bother paying any interest?
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2016-02-24 18:21:35 UTC
Edwin Rothbard wrote:
wreck 21 wrote:
If you guys get this worked up about someone defaulting on a 30b loan secured @ 110%, I can't imagine how you cope with witnessing actual abuse of power.


At no point was the collateral worth 110% of the loan amount. That's not your problem though as that falls on the investors for failure to perform their own due diligence. For those who think that was Grendell's job I would like to point out that in most real-world transactions involving escrow the escrow merely holds the goods, they do not provide due diligence. It's still up to the investors to do their homework.


This ^^
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2016-02-24 18:24:11 UTC
Reminds me of a junk bond in real life.
Great on paper, but it you look closely it's a turd.
Vanaunge
Doomheim
#60 - 2016-02-25 00:38:01 UTC
Just to clear things up guys, I am not an alt of wreck 21. I filled the loan and a few days later recieved an offer I couldn't refuse in the end and asked to be withdrawn. I would like for MY reputation to remain intact. As I may one day need a loan.