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Updating market orders... CCPlease halp
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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#21 - 2016-02-23 13:24:40 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
This is what weeds out the weak among us traders
Hardly. The only thing it weeded out is my G9x which sadly had to go to a better place recently.

Normal trading doesn't really need this, but seeding new markets and low population areas is just a pain without a change like this.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
#22 - 2016-02-23 17:35:56 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Violet Hurst wrote:
1. would cover two extremely thin cases:
a) Players who are forgetfull enough to not remember their market orders, but who at the same time are always up to date on their assets, since that's the only other place where they could notice that their orders got cancelled.
b) Players who don't need the ISK/item now, but who know in advance that if the order doesn't fill, they'll need it back in exactly 90 or 30 days. If they need it back in 89 or 25 days, they'd still be better off cancelling the order manually.
I use varied order dates all the time. Quite often it's because you know that you want to buy something at a set price for the short term, but don't want to run the risk of buying over the long term, so you set an order date that limits your exposure to risk. It's not all bout forgetfulness, external factors can come into play which prevent you being able to come on sometimes.

Umm, that functionality would cease to exist or would at least be seriously impeded upon hitting the button, so I'm not really convinced of your appreciation there. Also the risk limitation while not being online seems a bit slim, since, if not done by volume, your order can still fill up with stuff you don't want in a couple of minutes. Obviously you'll neither need the order nor the locked up ISK while not being online.
Now if you used it for playing the market that'd be fair and square. But building gameplay on a hollow gimmick seems a bit like handing players a potion of invincibility and then laughing at them when they die or adding an alternate character to super mario that can't jump.

Lucas Kell wrote:
Violet Hurst wrote:
2. is what I referred to with the dead man's switch. If I was a CCP employee and I anticipated my players to be dodgy enough to let their market accounts expire, I wouldn't give them three months extra time to continue trading. They'd save two thirds of their subscription fees. And in any case they'd have to reactivate that account at some point to pick up the spoils anyway.
I personally haven't let an account with active orders expire yet, so I'll have to admit that I don't know whether or not they get auto-cancelled. Does anybody have a recent member of Doomheim in their wallet history? Then we'd know for sure.
Active orders stay active all the time the character is inactive. They obviously get removed if you biomass the character, but being on an unsubscribed account doesn't cancel the orders. If they were to completely remove the timers the market would be filled with 1isk region wide orders for every item in every region, as there would no longer be a cost associated with keeping that order open. As it currently stands you have to pay a plex at least every 90 days to keep at most ~900 orders open.

Either way, I don't see a good reason to remove the time options and it's certainly out of scope of this idea as it has potentially wide reaching repercussions. This idea is simply a way to make it easier for active characters to refresh their active order timers.


Well, from my naive point of view that problem might regulate itself as soon as somebody else puts up 1.01 ISK region wide orders for every item. But realistically speaking we're talking about accounts here which require no subscription fee and only very low maintenance (apparently you can API check inactive accounts to look for succesful trades). Yet they include three characters with the maximum number of trade orders(roughly 9 PLEXes), apparently rake in less than one PLEX every three months and run the risk of being deleted (while annoying CCP). Umm, no. If that was a viable tactic under a system with unlimited orders the only thing keeping players from doing it now would indeed be the tedium of updating 900 market orders every three months. Now, balancing by tedium is often disdained, but on the other hand I don't see people running around praising progress quest as the pinnacle of gaming, so...



After all this criticism I feel like I have to reiterate that I'm not opposed to your idea in general. Under the premise of a self-regulating market anything is viable. It's just that it's building a gimmick on top of another gimmick (the free extension with price changes), playing with a symptom instead of looking at the feature it belongs to.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#23 - 2016-02-23 17:47:04 UTC
Violet Hurst wrote:
Umm, that functionality would cease to exist or would at least be seriously impeded upon hitting the button, so I'm not really convinced of your appreciation there. Also the risk limitation while not being online seems a bit slim, since, if not done by volume, your order can still fill up with stuff you don't want in a couple of minutes. Obviously you'll neither need the order nor the locked up ISK while not being online.
Now if you used it for playing the market that'd be fair and square. But building gameplay on a hollow gimmick seems a bit like handing players a potion of invincibility and then laughing at them when they die or adding an alternate character to super mario that can't jump.
Why would it? All the button would do is exactly what we have to manually do order by order right now. It would simply refresh the order back to it's original timer following input from us.

You're trying to claim that the existing timer or orders is pointless, I'm stating that it is used by some trader and thus not pointless, but once again that's well beside the point. The aim of this change is to save players from a repetitive action from which there is no alternative, not rebuild the principal mechanics on which trading is built.

Violet Hurst wrote:
After all this criticism I feel like I have to reiterate that I'm not opposed to your idea in general. Under the premise of a self-regulating market anything is viable. It's just that it's building a gimmick on top of another gimmick (the free extension with price changes), playing with a symptom instead of looking at the feature it belongs to.
But that's the point, the order extension is a defined feature, not a gimmick. You're suggesting it has no purpose and thus it should just be removed. I'm not suggesting the timer be removed and I know for a fact that doing so would cause problems with some traders. Again, I'm suggesting a change which simply reduces the number of clicks to achieve the exact same result, nothing more. I'm not asking for them to look at how trading in general works or how many other options there are on orders, just to get rid of the repetitive clicks to update sever hundred orders. If you're not opposed to that idea, great!

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2016-02-23 17:53:56 UTC
I'd put a "renew selected order" button on the interface to put it back at it's original length and at the same time, some broker fee for every update/change to orders.
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