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[March] Stasis Webifier Tiericide

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#41 - 2016-02-14 22:59:58 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Will anyone fit the "enduring" variant? Cap drain seems... low, on all of these ;)



Super budget options are useful. If they wind up at 5000 ISK, RvB and similar entities will use them.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2016-02-15 00:47:51 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Will anyone fit the "enduring" variant? Cap drain seems... low, on all of these ;)

If you have the CPU to spare and you have no use for it elsewhere, the Enduring is better than the Compact. People will use it for that reason, but 0.6 Gj/s isn't a bad thing to have, especially from changing just one module.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#43 - 2016-02-15 12:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
At the beginning of tiericed you said that no module in the same meta would be worse at the basic function of the module. Here we see meta 8 modules that have both less range and less web strength then other meta 8 mods in exchange for easier cpu fitting. This is what you said you would not do.

I think this makes some of the mods clearly inferior as people can rearrange their rapier, vindicator, baahlgorn, vigilant etc., fits to save 15 cpu without much effort.

I am wondering if original principal is going to be abandoned in future modules as well. So for example will imperial navy armor mods still give better resists and the federation ones just be easier to fit.


Edit:

When you are referring to all the named meta 1 modules having the same power this is what you say:

"It’s important to note that none of the named modules specialize in stronger “primary” stats, as those modules would become the obvious best choice for most situations."

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rebalancing-eve-one-module-at-a-time/

Is it not clear here that the webs with better range and speed reduction will be the obvious best choice? Why does this analysis change when we look at faction mods? If anything ships tend to be fit around a faction mod and generally only more valuable larger ships (with more fitting space) fit faction mods.

You clearly do not consider better fitting to be a "primary" stat for named meta 1 items. For webs range and amount of speed reduction would both be "primary" stats. Yet you still consider caldari webs to be the same meta as other webs with clearly better primary stats.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#44 - 2016-02-17 03:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyranis Marcus
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Tyranis Marcus wrote:
Hmm. Thanks. I assume you were able to see the whole table? The image didn't show up as a link for me, so I was stuck with only the first columns, couldn't see cycle times.

You can see the whole table by right-clicking it and selecting 'View Image', but the table doesn't have a cycle time column anyway. It doesn't really need one, as all webifiers have (and will continue to have) a 5s cycle time, including the officer webs.


Yeah, I wasn't even able to do that, and wasn't going to make any assumptions on cycle times in that case. (Been having some interesting computer and internet problems. You should see the juggle I'm doing to log on to Eve right now, until my connection gets sorted out!)

Thanks for the repies, anyway.

Do not run. We are your friends.
ISD Atomic Dove
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#45 - 2016-02-17 10:41:30 UTC
I've trimmed back a few empty posts, no biggies here. Smile

ISD Atomic Dove

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#46 - 2016-02-17 16:41:27 UTC
I'm just wondering if there's the potential for adding Deadspace variants of all these modules (not just stasis webs). Since there's already a finite gap between most Faction and Officer versions, I might instead suggest providing similar overall stats to Faction modules but adjust the parameters so you maybe get a 40% web @20km as one option or 45% @18km with another. It would be nice to have options other than simply more strength and range. And with the various Deadspace sub-types it would be easy to accomodate lighter fighting requirements and capacitor usage.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jimy F
Strategic Isks Investments Corporation
#47 - 2016-02-17 21:55:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jimy F
hmm
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2016-02-18 03:21:04 UTC
Is there no one else who wants to have a scoped meta stasis webifier put into the game?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
BobDoLe Senator
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2016-02-20 08:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: BobDoLe Senator
Is this an intentional (and huge) nerf to Daredevil (and Vigilant/Vindicator but their cpu are not as tight)?

While in current version I fit two meta-4 webs to achieve the 98% speed reduction, after the patch I'll have to replace them with two T2 webs if I want the same effect. The replacement will cost 16 more cpu (22->30 each), which matters a lot.

It should be noted that although a -60% web is marginally more effective than a -55% web, for a daredevil the -60% web is nearly twice as effective as the -55% one (-90% compared to -82.5%).
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2016-02-20 10:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
BobDoLe Senator wrote:
It should be noted that although a -60% web is marginally more effective than a -55% web, for a daredevil the -60% web is nearly twice as effective as the -55% one (-90% compared to -82.5%).

It should be nerfed even further. Serpentis ships should get no more than 75% slowing from a T2 web.

edit: Daredevil can still use Khanid web

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
BobDoLe Senator
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2016-02-20 11:22:56 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
BobDoLe Senator wrote:
It should be noted that although a -60% web is marginally more effective than a -55% web, for a daredevil the -60% web is nearly twice as effective as the -55% one (-90% compared to -82.5%).

It should be nerfed even further. Serpentis ships should get no more than 75% slowing from a T2 web.

edit: Daredevil can still use Khanid web


Well, you can test the idea by fitting a meta 0 web (or even a -55% web) in daredevil right now, and try to prove me that the fit is anything but useless.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2016-02-20 17:49:51 UTC
BobDoLe Senator wrote:
Well, you can test the idea by fitting a meta 0 web (or even a -55% web) in daredevil right now, and try to prove me that the fit is anything but useless.

I'm not sure what you consider bare minimum for operational capacity of a Daredevil, but if I wanted to fly a 60 mil tackler frigate, Daredevil would probably be my first choice. I might go for a Dramiel, though, because that extra speed would be nice and I don't need that web strength.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2016-03-07 08:52:54 UTC
Having just done a comparison on this, wouldn't it make more sense for the t1 web to have the same 55% effectiveness?

Reasoning.

t1 has the same fitting costs as the x5 and the same cap consumption as fleeting.
If we establish that t1 is the baseline module, then it should be the middle ground as opposed to the bottom of the rung.

If the tiericide isn't built in a manner in which t1 is competitive, then why even bother having t1 as it will never be chosen.
This is on the premise that cost of the module is a non-factor, and seeing as how the price variation between these modules is at most 2 million isk, I would consider it a non-factor.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2016-03-08 15:05:40 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
If the tiericide isn't built in a manner in which t1 is competitive, then why even bother having t1 as it will never be chosen.
This is on the premise that cost of the module is a non-factor, and seeing as how the price variation between these modules is at most 2 million isk, I would consider it a non-factor.

Price is always a factor, and for many players 2 million ISK is way too much for a meta stasis webifier. I consider myself in that crowd most of the time but it depends on the hull I'm putting it on. But the meta won't be 2 million for long--it was only up there due to its high popularity back when it was better than t2.

Meta 0 won't get chosen because meta 1 is never too expensive. Even for brand new pilots, 50k ISK is easy to come by and that's usually the upper end of what you have to pay if you have access to a trade hub.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
GinBar
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2016-03-11 20:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: GinBar
Devs someone made mistake ? with pricing RF web in LP stores, what is going on ? 80K LP for single RF web, while FN web bpc ( 5 run ) = 60 K LP. Am I crazy or what ? ). And there is no RF web 5 run bpc in LP stores?
Cartheron Crust
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#56 - 2016-03-15 19:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Cartheron Crust
GinBar wrote:
Devs someone made mistake ? with pricing RF web in LP stores, what is going on ? 80K LP for single RF web, while FN web bpc ( 5 run ) = 60 K LP. Am I crazy or what ? ). And there is no RF web 5 run bpc in LP stores?


I don't know if it has changed recently but I used to run missions for the gallente corp that offered the 5 run bpc for fed navy webs. At the time the higher level agents only had the ones that offered courier missions and very very occaisonally a security mission. So they still had low average LP payouts. They were around Stacmon and the lowsec area there iirc. So it still took a long ass time to get that LP. Comparatively not really that much better than other L4 agents. Unless you ran the lowsec ones with a Blockade Runner. Still not that great though.

And do all LP stores have to have the same offers? =/
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#57 - 2016-03-16 15:33:41 UTC
GinBar wrote:
Devs someone made mistake ? with pricing RF web in LP stores, what is going on ? 80K LP for single RF web, while FN web bpc ( 5 run ) = 60 K LP. Am I crazy or what ? ). And there is no RF web 5 run bpc in LP stores?


I am not saying this is balanced or not, but you also have to consider the amount of isk and cost of tags involved.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
CaesarGREG
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2016-05-13 00:22:51 UTC
Statis Webifer T2 didnt had 12km? now 10km? or i remember somthing wrong
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2016-05-13 01:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
CaesarGREG wrote:
Statis Webifer T2 didnt had 12km? now 10km? or i remember somthing wrong

All the T1/meta/T2 have always had 10km range exactly. Only faction variants and higher ever had more.


They had a chance to change this. I was hoping they would add a scoped meta variant, but they decided instead to make me sad.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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