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First Maxed Eve account.

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ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#381 - 2016-02-16 13:33:08 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
I see a lot of people upset about skill trading. Though beyond personal vanity i dont see any actual arguments against it.

Asking people to begin this game 13 years behind with no possibility to close the gap on the vets is a big ask. Especially if those new players put more time in and undock more on the daily than 99% of the bitter class.

People buying skills has no impact on players who dont use the feature. The game is 13 years old and concurrent player levels are dropping, changes like this are good for the game if people can set aside their misplaced culture shock.

Admittedly, there are many other things they could do to improve the new player experience to help retain more new players, but CCP seems unwilling to make the default state of a fresh install of EVE fit for any purpose giving newbs the impression that EVE is completely unplayable.


Your missing the point entirely. Those vets HAD to spend that amount of time and money to get where they have. They were forced to, we even had skills for skill training, clones to pay for etc. Over the past year or so thats all gone, so for new people its 10x easier. Which I'm not saying is a bad thing as such.
However what does your character become now?

We might as well remove employment history and date of birth details because its practically irrelevant now.

People asking for 20mill sp on recruitment meant most of the time people not only had the skills but some actual in game experience, now 20, 30, heck 100mill chars can be on 1 day characters. I know you can check on that but SP was the heart of what your character was, now its nothing, meaningless

I know shall we start trading KB kills as well so that not only can you buy SP but you can pretend to have the kills as well.
The only people selling the skills are mainly the vets, so when they have finished, where is the rest of the SP coming from? OK there will be a flow but not at these epic levels. The good thing is that people can focus train, and get rid of old stuff.
What excitement or interest does this game hold for people, like we used to when we had to wait a days, when now you can instantly become a cap pilot, wheres the in game satisfaction from that?
It ends up being like a gambling addict getting the fix.

You have to look at the bigger picture.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#382 - 2016-02-16 13:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lady Anorexia wrote:
Admiral Mason wrote:
http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank

Make of it what you will.


Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA.


Yeah it's such a bad move for a corporation to follow the "lead" of successful ones...


So there is no room for a (heretofore) ethical game company that (with the exception of monoclegate) doesn't seem to want to soak it's customers?

That's the underlying issue, and it's the issue the SP trade supporters don't understand. No one (in their right minds that is) cares about imaginary prestige of having more SP than new players. And no one with any sense thinks these new botox injected high SP characters are going to beat down older/less SP players in pvp.

The actual issue is disappointment.

-Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike.

-Disappointment because in monetizing the game like this CCP creates yet another wealth faucet that will cheapen the experiences in the game. Loses are already trivial for anyone that can fly an Ishtar in null sec, a bomber in FW or an incursion ship in high sec, and now it's worse because New Eden will be flooded with isk that previously sat in some rich guy's wallet doing nothing. SP trading creates a flow of wealth from new/poor to rich/establihsed that wasn't as possible before (because the Character Bazaar had limits).

SP trading isn't the end of EVE. It can't imo be called p2w because there is nothing to win. It is a horrible example of "corporate greed in the false name of progress"
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#383 - 2016-02-16 13:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Suparion Knox wrote:
This highlights exactly why the skill injector ability should be removed from the game, it is a bad idea and this only goes to prove it.

Please don't ruin this wonderful game by providing lazy people with shortcuts.

The fact that it takes dedication and time to accomplish anything in this game is exactly why I and most others play it.



Ok, so someone spent 2 trillion isk on other peoples SP. The SP was not generated from the ether. Huge amounts of historical SP was removed from the game in doing so.

Please explain how this negatively impacts you, because from here it seems you are just impulsively complaining with no basis or rationale.

If anything, there was a useless character called IronBank, now there is a possible target in spae flying something nice for you to shoot. Oh, sorry, looks like im responding to yet another dude in GD that doesnt PVP.

ImYourMom wrote:


Your missing the point entirely. Those vets HAD to spend that amount of time and money to get where they have. They were forced to, we even had skills for skill training, clones to pay for etc. Over the past year or so thats all gone, so for new people its 10x easier. Which I'm not saying is a bad thing as such.
However what does your character become now?

We might as well remove employment history and date of birth details because its practically irrelevant now.

People asking for 20mill sp on recruitment meant most of the time people not only had the skills but some actual in game experience, now 20, 30, heck 100mill chars can be on 1 day characters. I know you can check on that but SP was the heart of what your character was, now its nothing, meaningless

I know shall we start trading KB kills as well so that not only can you buy SP but you can pretend to have the kills as well.
The only people selling the skills are mainly the vets, so when they have finished, where is the rest of the SP coming from? OK there will be a flow but not at these epic levels. The good thing is that people can focus train, and get rid of old stuff.
What excitement or interest does this game hold for people, like we used to when we had to wait a days, when now you can instantly become a cap pilot, wheres the in game satisfaction from that?
It ends up being like a gambling addict getting the fix.

You have to look at the bigger picture.


The bigger picture where people buying skills still has no negative impact on you?

Their DOB is still their DOB, their employment history is still their employment history. There was never a 'show info' on peoples SP. Ive never based my decision to attack someone on any of these factors. Focus on the pixels in space, and you should be fine.

You are upset, but you are also being an irrational puritan. Kind of like how people say that gay people getting married will destroy the institution of marriage. Choices are good, keeping people 13 years behind the curve and telling them thats their place and they should be happy with that is bad.
Lady Anorexia
Doomheim
#384 - 2016-02-16 13:41:04 UTC
Big Lynx wrote:
On the other hand I am glad that IronBank demonstrated this level of absurdity. It shows the radical change of CCP's CRM for more profit and the painful sacrifice of a USP and kind of magical feature of EvE Online. It all has a bitter and strange taste.... Eve Online quo vadis?


sums it up pretty much
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#385 - 2016-02-16 13:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lady Anorexia wrote:
Admiral Mason wrote:
http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank

Make of it what you will.


Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA.


Yeah it's such a bad move for a corporation to follow the "lead" of successful ones...


So there is no room for a (heretofore) ethical game company that (with the exception of monoclegate) doesn't seem to want to soak it's customers?

That's the underlying issue, and it's the issue the SP trade supporters don't understand. No one (in their right minds that is) cares about imaginary prestige of having more SP than new players. And no one with any sense things these new botox injected high SP characters are going to beat down older/less SP players in pvp.

The actual issue is disappointment.

-Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike.

-Disappointment because in monetizing the game like this CCP creates yet another wealth faucet that will cheapen the experiences in the game. Loses are already trivial for anyone that can fly an Ishtar in null sec, a bomber in FW or an incursion ship in high sec, and now it's worse because New Eden will be flooded with isk that previously sat in some rich guy's wallet doing nothing. SP trading creates a flow of wealth from new/poor to rich/establihsed that wasn't possible before (because the Character Bazaar had limits).

SP trading isn't the end of EVE. It can't imo be called p2w because there is nothing to win. It is a horrible example of "corporate greed in the false name of progress"


I usually agree with the points you make as they are valid, but this is just sounds like anger because its not what you want, ccp are not forcing anyone to spend money and they have played it out to try and satisfy vets and newbies, cant win them all though can you?

-Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike.

this paragraph just seems like a total entitlement whine, let me ask you something, if the above statement was so great and ccp stuck to a deadend business model which clearly was not working to keep new players here, how exactly do they make money? they cant raise sub subscriptions because that causes outrage, how do they research new tech, pay for better servers, pay the developers in an constant price inflating world where subscriptions seem to be falling?

This doesnt personally affect your game unless you choose to let it affect your game

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#386 - 2016-02-16 13:44:57 UTC
oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less?
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#387 - 2016-02-16 13:46:07 UTC
So some char which probably never undocks has max skills. Big deal.

CCP has test chars with max skills, they also destroy your EVE experience?

Many other people have basically the same perfect skills as this one, only they have split it between different characters. Why would I want science and production skills on my pvp char? Useless.

Performance-wise, this perfect char is maybe 2-3% better than the average 120m SP character in any given situation.

So basically this is just a fun story, nothing more.

.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#388 - 2016-02-16 13:46:54 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less?


lol ok, is that the game where you have to buy single and multiplayer seperately? people moan at ccp then move to star citizen which is farse regarding money

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Codie Rin
Codie Industries Inc.
#389 - 2016-02-16 13:48:48 UTC
Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money?
Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income.
Big Lynx
#390 - 2016-02-16 13:49:27 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less?


people moan at ccp then move to star citizen which is farse regarding money


like EvE now
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#391 - 2016-02-16 13:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Codie Rin wrote:
Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money?
Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income.


Think about it mate.

The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here.
Suparion Knox
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#392 - 2016-02-16 13:50:25 UTC
OUCH!!!
My tender psyche has been irrevocably dented.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#393 - 2016-02-16 13:50:48 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less?

probably what CCP is thinking too. games old. expiry date on all MMOs.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Codie Rin
Codie Industries Inc.
#394 - 2016-02-16 13:52:16 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money?
Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income.


Think about it mate.

The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here.



Well please explain, enlighten me, because I am lost. If you mean then people will just unsub then yes there is that risk.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#395 - 2016-02-16 13:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Codie Rin wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money?
Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income.


Think about it mate.

The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here.



Well please explain, enlighten me, because I am lost. If you mean then people will just unsub then yes there is that risk.


When people buy PLEX with isk. Someone, somewhere spent real life money to create that PLEX. PLEX just represents 1 month subscription and its RL cost is higher than simply paying a month subscription on your own account.

The added cost represents the value of being able to market the PLEX in game and as such pay other peoples subscriptions for in game reward.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#396 - 2016-02-16 13:58:51 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:


I usually agree with the points you make as they are valid, but this is just sounds like anger because its not what you want, ccp are not forcing anyone to spend money and they have played it out to try and satisfy vets and newbies, cant win them all though can you?


The companies that abuse 'whale' type players aren't forcing anyone to do anyhting. Neither are casinos that prey on gambling addicts.

The good ting about CCP before now is that they were one of the companies that didn't do the above. Now they are. That aren't forcing anyone, they are simply preying on those weak enough to spend real life money to 'progress faster' in a game.

What's worse is that EVE is a game where progressing faster means nothing.

Quote:

-Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike.

this paragraph just seems like a total entitlement whine, let me ask you something, if the above statement was so great and ccp stuck to a deadend business model which clearly was not working to keep new players here, how exactly do they make money? they cant raise sub subscriptions because that causes outrage, how do they research new tech, pay for better servers, pay the developers in an constant price inflating world where subscriptions seem to be falling?


You act like CCP was in some kind of poor house. They weren't EVE was making a profit, apparently not enough of a profit for stake holders, but more than enough to do what they were doing. Apparently their financial situation was good enough to borrow 30 million dollars for Valkyrie. No bank I know of loans money to unprofitable business.

Your problem is that you aren't being properly critical of this issue because you seem to have paired it with some belief that EVE would die without out it. CCP could have done a whole slew of other things instead of this, they could have stuck to the 'cosmetic only' micro transactions and simply gotten better at making things like Skins (we told them during the skin bug that we'd pay for more customization ability, for example).

Quote:

This doesnt personally affect your game unless you choose to let it affect your game


I expected more from you than this kind of cop out. That's the kind of thing people say when they know they are defending a bad thing. I'm going to bookmark this particular post and show it to you in a year or so when the deleterious affects of this new unnecessary wealth faucet has had time to affect the game.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#397 - 2016-02-16 14:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
ImYourMom wrote:
oh well Star Citizen will be out soon... online users will drop dramatically bets on 10K or less?


The worse thing about all of this is that it's made me (me, who is amongst the most fanatical EVE players ever) start to think about life without EVE. Not that me playing something else it would put a dent in CCP.

But in this case, CCP has made Chris freaking Roberts seem like the more honest prospect. At least he takes money out of people front pockets for his pipe dream as opposed to CCPs new back pocket SP trading tactic....

Edit: gotta love Reddit: This is now CCP.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#398 - 2016-02-16 14:06:58 UTC
All i would add, while i have no problem with the current set up of SP injectors.

Perhaps the better way of managing this would be that once you have 80m SP you can no longer inject...

Though, like ive said, i dont really care about how many SP a character has.
Big Lynx
#399 - 2016-02-16 14:10:26 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
All i would add, while i have no problem with the current set up of SP injectors.

Perhaps the better way of managing this would be that once you have 80m SP you can no longer inject...

Though, like ive said, i dont really care about how many SP a character has.

contradictory argumentation dude.
Verlyn
Windhau
#400 - 2016-02-16 14:17:29 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Verlyn wrote:
Anyone else noticed that no single newbie made a post in this thread regarding how positive a change this is for him/her ?

Is there even such a thing as a true newbie in this game anymore ?

Yea, just sayin .....


Theyre probably too busy playing the game.


You mean, the forum-alt game ?