EVE General Discussion

The only coward is the one who is looking for unfair fight.

OH NOES GAIZ!!! HE IMPUNGED YOU EHONOUR!!!!

No thanks. No matter which way you cut it. It is still a "I wantz free hisec targets to attack" Earn up enough to get a gank ship if you want to fight incursion runners so bad. Incursions don't need this nerf.

And then you say if you cant haz your free targets you want to remove good hisec grouping. Bias much? Removing them from hisec will just lead to people going back to Lvl4 missions.

I am not a WoW player. (Or are you talking about that starcraft stuff I cant play for more than 2 mins before my mouse hand hurts?) Either way it is off topic.

Referring to WoW, sorry.

And actually, its not off topic, because it was those arguments, which are just like your arguments, that directly caused the massive decline of wow. When people who work hard are no longer the only ones who get the goodies, they quit the game because there is nothing to work for. When the people who want it that way get their way, they get bored and quit because they are no goals to set that they can't easily get to.

There is some complicated psychology behind it, but simply put, there are 2 kinds of people. Those who get off on doing, and those who get off on achieving. The achievers just want the goal at the end of the tunnel, and as such will try to make it easy so they can be praised for how good they are. The doers enjoy the tunnel itself, and look for a new one as soon as they reach the goal. When achievers get to influence the design of a game, they ruin it for everyone, because the doers don't want it to be that easy, and the achievers won't get praised for achieving easy things.

If you are a doer, you want it as hard as possible. If you are an achiever, you will work to make absolutely sure you get your shiny, even if it means other people can't have fun.

Sadly, eve is a game where the point of a doers is usually to make someone elses game less fun, so its hard to filter who is who, unless you ask yourself who is trying to ruin the game for as many people as possible via changing the rules, vs who is trying to ruin the game by in-game griefing.

tl;dr if your rule changes make it easier for anyone without addressing a clear imbalance, you are doing it wrong.

Bring back my Sanctums

to end dispute about PvP PvE game.. Let just keep it at EVE is an game. Everyone plays it for their reason/purpose and everyone can get their own view of what EVE as an game means for them.

Incursions are fun!

Incursions dont need to be fixed, they are not broken.

A lot of things in EVE are not fun, so they need to be fixed.

Fix that which is broken, its a better use of your time, and a better way to generate more interested players.
After I found out how fun incursions are, several of my RL friends have come back to EVE, because I told that to my great surprise, EVE was fun again.

Incursions has a much larger FUN/hour factor than any other PVE content in EVE.

This is what should matter.

That of course is ideal but is often not the case in EVE. Rarity, more times than not, dictates the value of many faction/deadspace/officer items, despite nearly-equivalent items being a fraction of the cost, items which also happen derive their value from manufacturing costs. PLEX is also another market "heavy-hitter" which also does not [directly] have to do with manufacturing costs or mineral value.

Regardless, what I'm trying to say is manufactured goods themselves and how their value is derived is largely irrelevant, at least in a direct sense. To answer your question: I am suggesting, perhaps the buying power of the ISK is dropping due to inflation from incursions, which seem to arbitrarily "print" unbacked ISK at unmatched rates prior to Incarna's release. I think the steady rise in PLEX value since Incarna is a direct result of this. At any rate, manufactured goods are not immediately related right now, but they will be when the market is oversaturated with ISK that can't buy what it used to. The keypoint here is: is there significantly more ISK in the game than there was pre-Incarna, and is it causing inflation/deflation? My money is on "yes" and "inflation," no pun intended.

Bingo.

True, but again, LP doesn't directly have to do with the point I'm trying to make (despite its value obviously decreasing, which is a sort of indicator as to what I think is going to happen to ISK). I mean it's ALL related under the umbrella which is the EVE market. Think of incursions as a running faucet; the faucet should be the focus. I don't care what gets wet, and I don't care where the water ends up a few days from now. I am concerned a faucet spewing gallons of water every second even exists. It's abnormal and potentially hazardous and someone should probably look into it (CCP).

And to your point, in case I didn't emphasize it enough yet is INFLATION. There isn't any need for us to look at the impacts of inflation; leave that to CCP's EVE market/economy guru(s). Overall, I am saying two things:

To CCP: "Hey, this running faucet exists. YOU MAY WANT TO LOOK INTO IT BECAUSE IT MIGHT GET SOME STUFF WET!"
To players: "Who gives a damn if it's purified, distilled, if it came from the Yangtze, or the Nile, or the Rhine??? IT DOES NOT MATTER! IT COULD BE FLOODING!"

My belief is the EVE economy is getting injected with massive piles of ISK from incursions. There is little risk to them, thus stripping incursions of the EVE-defacto "risk versus reward" mantra (even at a metaphorical level). This same mantra is typically what separates EVE from most other/popular MMOs. Yes, I said it: I see little difference between incursions and WoW instances. I don't think the model belongs here. I also believe "risk versus reward" is what drives the core of the market (the market being, not coincidentally, another factor in making EVE unique when compared to other MMOs). I understand people wanted more PVE content but I don't think its payoff should have ever matched incomes of those who have setup shop in the more dangerous areas of space. Frankly, I thought wormholes were supposed to be the answer to this, but I guess the idea of lawless space is still too much for many to overcome. At any rateCCP doubled-up on the PVE solution by providing incursions. Personally I think it's a shame.

The ONE saving grace of incursions is it, ironically, provides people with so much ISK, then can now buy faction/deadspace/officer ships and items without breaking a sweat. I say ironically because this thread shows a fair amount of people who are appauled by the incomes in highsec due to incursions, yet these are the same people who provide the faction/deadspace/officer items which are being bought by those same incursion pilots. Hypocracy? Probably. But again, that's not the point.

I see a faucet spewing a lot of water. Please investigate the faucet and find out if it's too much water. Stop bitching about what kind of water it's spewing.

That's the point.

- Incursions go way too fast? People can farm them for days, which is very likely one problem. Migration is a good thing. Like Ooooh STARGATE and FLYING IN SPACE.

Otherwise I've been doing some incursions and getting up fleets that's not easy **** (for proper gang) and takes time. That's why bigger sites need oomph. Getting a bigger fleet running is much more difficult. VG fleet is still reasonably small and easier to get running without too much planning and spamming. Not to mention VG sites are pretty straightforward close to medium range "fights". VG's are good money but not so good I'd go decrease rewards much.

Instead of going nerf all hi sec **** I'd go boosting more difficult sites and low sec especially. 0.0 is controlled by alliances which already have their isk prints they don't especially need more goodies there. Well, at least not in form of incursions. 0.0 needs other **** to make it rewarding to gather corporations, alliances and actually taking effort to siege systems for months and stuff. All that crap does not reward anyone much, especially normal cannon fodder which is actually just paying isk to fund ships and then he pays taxes to corp for ratting and then he pays taxes at stations for refining and market. Pay pay pay pay pay pay pay.

I don't care about incursions one way or the other, but thinking about it, this game lives and dies with High Sec. If you squeeze players out of High Sec, you are more likely to squeeze them out of the game and not into low or hull sec.

IMO, make High Sec more fun, not less. A better game experience in High Sec means more people playing this game which in turn means more people out in Low and Null blowing each other up.