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Log Off To Character Selection Menu

Author
Clover Axion
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-02-14 19:29:27 UTC
I am sure this has been discussed before, but I am a new spacer & I have to ask why there is no log off button to the char selection screen? Is it necessary to completely close the game each time? Granted it only takes a few seconds, but I figured there must be a reason.

Thank you (:
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#2 - 2016-02-14 19:39:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Because of the way CCP programmed the thing initially. There is no easy solution and they would need to overhaul a lot of code. One of those EVE things.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2016-02-14 19:43:57 UTC
Last time I saw a dev response on this they said it would take something like 6months of nontrivial coding to save you less than 20(ish) seconds.

Personally I just keep the launcher open.
Jarsoom Blade
Blade's Legion
#4 - 2016-02-14 19:50:29 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Last time I saw a dev response on this they said it would take something like 6months of nontrivial coding to save you less than 20(ish) seconds.

Personally I just keep the launcher open.

Same, launcher only closes/opens again after downtime for possible patch.

Nonetheless, not having to start up the entire client everytime would be nice indeed. Especially for our potato brethren Bear

"Two things I've learned lately. One: don't get jammed. And two: stationary ships don't react well to 1400's" - John Rourke, Clear Skies 2

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#5 - 2016-02-14 19:53:20 UTC
Clover Axion wrote:
I am sure this has been discussed before, but I am a new spacer & I have to ask why there is no log off button to the char selection screen? Is it necessary to completely close the game each time? Granted it only takes a few seconds, but I figured there must be a reason.

Thank you (:


Fixing EVE legacy code is like playing pick-up-sticks. There's a good chance that when they try to pull that one section of code out to make this request of yours happen, that they'll bring down all the stuff that was built off of it.

There's a real potential for disaster here and not really worth it for a few seconds time saving. Just do as Ralph (and most others) does.

Mr Epeen Cool
Clover Axion
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-02-14 19:55:23 UTC
Six months to put in a lof off button....? That seems a little extreme to me, I wonder why it was never implemented to begin with. Keeping the Launcher up is what I do anyway, though I was always curious.
Clover Axion
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-02-14 19:57:16 UTC
Clover Axion wrote:
Six months to put in a lof off button....? That seems a little extreme to me, but from what Nana said perhaps it is plausible. I wonder why it was never implemented to begin with. Keeping the Launcher up is what I do anyway, though I was always curious.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#8 - 2016-02-14 20:14:52 UTC
Clover Axion wrote:
Six months to put in a lof off button....? That seems a little extreme to me, I wonder why it was never implemented to begin with.
Decade old undocumented code, written by people who no longer work for CCP, to the constraints of what was possible at the time. It'd probably take 3 months to actually find it and alter the way it handles character sessions, and then another 3 to make sure it doesn't break anything else.

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2016-02-14 20:19:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Clover Axion wrote:
Six months to put in a lof off button....? That seems a little extreme to me, I wonder why it was never implemented to begin with. Keeping the Launcher up is what I do anyway, though I was always curious.

Here is the last thread this was discussed in: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6309662#post6309662

I wrote:
CCP Karkur (in reference to character switching)
CCP Karkur wrote:
No. We would love to be able to do that, but that is not at all a "character selection screen" issue.
Once a connection has been made, both the server code and client code make a lot of assumptions that the characterID will not change, and it's very far from trivial to change that (otherwise we probably would have done that a long time ago)


The CSM even brought up the idea with the DEVs some years ago. The DEVs flat out said that it would take "5 programmers 6 months of work to save players 10 seconds."

However, there is a bright spot. It is understood that the DEVs have been working on the old legacy code... because in order make Citadels, complex missions, and some other fancy stuff happen they have untangle the old code.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#10 - 2016-02-14 20:22:41 UTC
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-02-14 21:27:24 UTC
Clover Axion wrote:
Six months to put in a lof off button....?


When you write software you often make assumptions based on how you think the software will be used or what it should do, for example stuff like "only one client will be logged into an account" or in this case "the characterID won't change during a session" and then you rely on that assumption in different parts of the code.
Just putting in a button that allows you to switch to a different character and thus change the character ID is trivial, however fixing all those parts in the code where you used that assumption is a lot of work.
Especially with legacy code that you didn't write yourself it can be very hard to even find all the parts of the code where that assumption was used, because it might not be obvious or is only important in certain edge cases.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2016-02-14 22:19:42 UTC
you can set the multiple account login launcher thing to force close your client and re-log to the character selection screen. It's a workaround, but functionally this issue has been solved.
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#13 - 2016-02-14 22:28:05 UTC
Jarsoom Blade wrote:

Same, launcher only closes/opens again after downtime for possible patch.

Nonetheless, not having to start up the entire client everytime would be nice indeed. Especially for our potato brethren Bear


Even for those of us currently playing on potatoes or toasters, EVE restarts quite quickly enough. I do notice a performance hit when I have two clients open though.
Fatoria Hemah
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2016-02-15 11:27:07 UTC
Wouldn't be such a biggy coding if they made

'Log Off Char' Button -> Closes game, restarts Client with current Account logged in -> Char Screen

Instead of changing base code just build a bypass that doesnt touch that base code
Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-02-15 11:38:39 UTC
I love antiques! Don't you?

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2016-02-15 14:29:10 UTC
Clover Axion wrote:
Six months to put in a lof off button....? That seems a little extreme to me, I wonder why it was never implemented to begin with. Keeping the Launcher up is what I do anyway, though I was always curious.


The client .exe file takes some stuff for granted that are hard coded into it which cannot let us swap character. The DEVs said something along the line of 3 devs full time for a few months to save us 20 seconds was the ratio of the proposed change. This is of course wasteful usage of resources so it was not done and more than likely never will be.

Remember, the game is 10+ years old with part of the code dating even further back since they were probably created in alpha as building blocks for the game foundation. You can't just scrap that sometime.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-02-15 14:30:33 UTC
Fatoria Hemah wrote:
Wouldn't be such a biggy coding if they made

'Log Off Char' Button -> Closes game, restarts Client with current Account logged in -> Char Screen

Instead of changing base code just build a bypass that doesnt touch that base code


Or you could close it and click the PLAY button on the launcher and not require any coding at all. Guess which option CCP want.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#18 - 2016-02-15 15:04:17 UTC
Yea. When the new launcher came out I was expecting the login experience to be a bit more streamlined. But I don't have to type my password every time so progress.

Thank you ShahFluffers for the relevant info.

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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2016-02-15 19:17:10 UTC
Clover Axion wrote:
Six months to put in a lof off button....? That seems a little extreme to me, I wonder why it was never implemented to begin with. Keeping the Launcher up is what I do anyway, though I was always curious.


It is extreme, and a log-off button should be implemented at some point. But you have to understand that EVE as a game has been in constant development since 2001, and some of the most basic systems (such as the account verification, character selection) have barely been touched in the last decade. This particular system acts as a foundation for thousands of lines of code and changing it would, as others have said, break an ungodly amount of things. The age old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here, unfortunately.

A few years ago CCP shared plans for a new login service though, so I assume they do plan to update and modernize those systems at some point, but it would have to be in a wider scope than just adding a logoff button.

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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#20 - 2016-02-15 19:29:34 UTC
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