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Afterburn To Warp Trick.

Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2016-02-14 12:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mark O'Helm wrote:
I still don't get it. What is "In"?

Can somebody make an align time calculation for an orca for example please?Shocked

ln() is the natural logarithm function, such that ln(eⁿ) = n and e^ln(n) = n.

The time to get to a given speed v (from a standstill) is -ln(1-v/vmax) × M × I / 10⁶.

Since we want to warp, the speed we want to reach is 75% of max speed, so we can substitute 0.75 for v/vmax. We could input the actual speeds directly (75m/s for vmax and 56.25m/s for v), but since v/vmax is a fixed percentage threshold in the case of warping, the actual speeds don't matter.

• -ln(1-0.75) = 1.386294
• M is the mass of the ship; for a sample Orca, this is 250,000,000.
• I is the inertia modifier (or “agility”) of the ship; for a sample Orca, this is 0.108.
• 1.386294 × 250,000,000 × 0.108 / 10⁶ = 37.42993, which is the align time in seconds.

If we slap an MWD on that Orca and toggle it to make use of this trick, we can explain it in two ways. One is to just do the same calculation with the new values. In this case, though, the actual speeds do matter. We still want to reach v=56.25m/s, but while the MWD is toggled on, vmax = 300m/s. It also adds 50,000,000kg to our mass.

• -ln(1-56.25/300) = 0.207639
• M is 300,000,000
• I is still 0.108
• 0.207639 × 300,000,000 × 1.08 / 10⁶ = 6.727503

After just 6.7 seconds with the MWD turned on, we are above the speed we'd need to get into warp if the MWD was off. 3.3 Seconds later, the cycle ends and we are now travelling faster than the threshold speed for warp, instantly kicking us into warp.

Alternatively, we can just calculate what speed we'll have at the end of the 10-second MWD cycle.
The speed after t seconds of acceleration from a standstill is v(t) = vmax × ( 1-e^( -t×10⁶ / (M×I) ) ). In this case, t=10.

• 300 × ( 1-e^( -10×10⁶ / (300,000,000 × 0.108) ) ) = 79.66689

So after a single 10-second MWD pulse, the Orca is travelling at 79.7m/s. When the MWD turns off at the end of the cycle, the warp threshold of goes back to being 56.25m/s, and the Orca instantly warps.

What if we try an AB instead?
The max speed is just 131m/s and the mass is once again increased to 300,000,000. Also, the cycle time is 7.5s.

• -ln(1-56.25/131) × 300,000,000 × 0.108 / 10⁶ = 18.2

After 18.2 seconds, we're up to speed, but we're into our third cycle, which when we turn the AB off will last until t=22.5s — only then will the warp threshold drop back to normal and we get kicked into warp.

So the options are:
• Just align and warp — 37.4 seconds.
• Let an AB run for 3 cycles — 22.5 seconds.
• Let an MWD run for 1 cycle — 10 seconds.

e: Expanded to demonstrate why this trick works.
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#22 - 2016-02-14 12:54:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mark O'Helm wrote:
I still don't get it. What is "In"?

Can somebody make an align time calculation for an orca for example please?Shocked

ln() is the natural logarithm function, such that ln(eⁿ) = n and e^ln(n) = n.

The time to get to a given speed v (from a standstill) is -ln(1-v/vmax) × M × I / 10⁶.

Since we want to warp, the speed we want to reach is 75% of max speed, so we can substitute 0.75 for v/vmax.
• -ln(1-0.75) = 1.386294
• M is the mass of the ship; for a sample Orca, this is 250,000,000.
• I is the inertia modifier (or “agility”) of the ship; for a sample Orca, this is 0.108.
• 1.386294 × 250,000,000 × 0.108 / 10⁶ = 37.42993, which is the align time in seconds.

*klick* aaaaahhhhh. Thank you very much.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2016-02-14 13:13:31 UTC
Wait, some people didn't know this trick?
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#24 - 2016-02-14 13:37:33 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Wait, some people didn't know this trick?

I knew the mwd warp trick. But not the math behind aligning.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)

Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#25 - 2016-02-14 15:21:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Mark O'Helm wrote:
I still don't get it. What is "In"?

Can somebody make an align time calculation for an orca for example please?Shocked

ln() is the natural logarithm function, such that ln(eⁿ) = n and e^ln(n) = n.

The time to get to a given speed v (from a standstill) is -ln(1-v/vmax) × M × I / 10⁶.

Since we want to warp, the speed we want to reach is 75% of max speed, so we can substitute 0.75 for v/vmax. We could input the actual speeds directly (75m/s for vmax and 56.25m/s for v), but since v/vmax is a fixed percentage threshold in the case of warping, the actual speeds don't matter.

• -ln(1-0.75) = 1.386294
• M is the mass of the ship; for a sample Orca, this is 250,000,000.
• I is the inertia modifier (or “agility”) of the ship; for a sample Orca, this is 0.108.
• 1.386294 × 250,000,000 × 0.108 / 10⁶ = 37.42993, which is the align time in seconds.

If we slap an MWD on that Orca and toggle it to make use of this trick, we can explain it in two ways. One is to just do the same calculation with the new values. In this case, though, the actual speeds do matter. We still want to reach v=56.25m/s, but while the MWD is toggled on, vmax = 300m/s. It also adds 50,000,000kg to our mass.

• -ln(1-56.25/300) = 0.207639
• M is 300,000,000
• I is still 0.108
• 0.207639 × 300,000,000 × 1.08 / 10⁶ = 6.727503

After just 6.7 seconds with the MWD turned on, we are above the speed we'd need to get into warp if the MWD was off. 3.3 Seconds later, the cycle ends and we are now travelling faster than the threshold speed for warp, instantly kicking us into warp.

Alternatively, we can just calculate what speed we'll have at the end of the 10-second MWD cycle.
The speed after t seconds of acceleration from a standstill is v(t) = vmax × ( 1-e^( -t×10⁶ / (M×I) ) ). In this case, t=10.

• 300 × ( 1-e^( -10×10⁶ / (300,000,000 × 0.108) ) ) = 79.66689

So after a single 10-second MWD pulse, the Orca is travelling at 79.7m/s. When the MWD turns off at the end of the cycle, the warp threshold of goes back to being 56.25m/s, and the Orca instantly warps.

What if we try an AB instead?
The max speed is just 131m/s and the mass is once again increased to 300,000,000. Also, the cycle time is 7.5s.

• -ln(1-56.25/131) × 300,000,000 × 0.108 / 10⁶ = 18.2

After 18.2 seconds, we're up to speed, but we're into our third cycle, which when we turn the AB off will last until t=22.5s — only then will the warp threshold drop back to normal and we get kicked into warp.

So the options are:
• Just align and warp — 37.4 seconds.
• Let an AB run for 3 cycles — 22.5 seconds.
• Let an MWD run for 1 cycle — 10 seconds.

e: Expanded to demonstrate why this trick works.
I have read it now and my brain hurts. Thank you for that. Ouch.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)

Destiny Dain2
Your Destiny Corporation
#26 - 2016-02-15 04:33:13 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Wait, some people didn't know this trick?


Most people should know it, but it took me a couple months of playing EVE to think of trying this. I always wanted to make a video available online of this trick to save other noobs from waiting til they knew enough to think of this.

I always have played solo and never had anyone tell me about little things like this. I stumble across things.
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