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Eve devalued
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Michael Turate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-02-11 18:42:00 UTC
You can't buy social skills, intelligence, cunning, the ability to work in a team, communication, tactics or any of the stuff that really matters in Eve. There have never been short cuts in Eve. There still aren't, there's just an enormously expensive alternative route that looks like a short cut but which, for most, will just be a dead end.
Kelby
#22 - 2016-02-11 18:50:43 UTC
Injected SP could have been limited to 5-10mil SP per year in an effort to keep everyone happy-ish but any damage that was going to be done is now most likely done.

Maybe characters that inject SP should get an indicator on their character information :)
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#23 - 2016-02-11 18:58:11 UTC
Kelby wrote:
Injected SP could have been limited to 5-10mil SP per year in an effort to keep everyone happy-ish but any damage that was going to be done is now most likely done.

Maybe characters that inject SP should get an indicator on their character information :)


it wont be hard to see on api's that your sp just doesnt add up to time you have played

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#24 - 2016-02-11 19:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
I'll miss building chars to sell in the Character Bazaar. They were my perfect little babies, not one SP wasted-- each one precious and adorable in every way....
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-02-11 19:22:51 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
I'll miss building chars to sell in the Character Bazaar. They were my perfect little babies, every skill focused, not one wasted SP....


Yup... Alexis Valigarmanda, Corwin D'Loa, Xelena Shellar, you are the last 3 Slate Manufacturing Brand™ toons to enter the world born solely for eventual sale.
Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#26 - 2016-02-11 19:25:41 UTC
Wouldn't be the first time someone misread their own strengths and led with the wrong foot. Won't be the last.

As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
Idris Maelfa
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#27 - 2016-02-11 19:41:12 UTC
My view on this.

I have had to take a break from the game due to Real Life issues for a few years. So that I could keep on training I have been paying my monthly fee to CCP so that, at least, I can have some skills into my characters that I can use when I return.

Most of these are Industrial so these don't really require Real Life Behind The Keyboard Pew Skills.

I then find that I could instead just buy SP.

I feel very short-changed.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#28 - 2016-02-11 19:47:18 UTC
Gedrick frogue wrote:

Eve's greatest strength has always been that you had to earn, learn and grow within Eve, you learnt how skills, ship's, fittings, weapons, industry et all worked


Being able to purchase something that you get anyway for doing nothing more than having a sub changes none of that.

Sure, you can buy skills, but you still need to learn to use them. And you can't buy experience. That's what sets this game apart from most MMOs. It's not about how many SP you have. It's about investing the huge amount of time needed to use them.

I wish people would learn the difference between SP and experience. Though, if they did, the forum wouldn't be near as entertaining..

Mr Epeen Cool
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#29 - 2016-02-11 19:50:44 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
To the OP, you are correct. This game have been greatly devalued with the addition of this pay2win feature and can no longer be called Eve. This game is now called World of Spaceships, Eve is dead!



I'm calling our new game BERNICE ONLINE... EVE's slightly less-attractive, overweight cousin.


I've even come up with some new taglines since HTFU is out...

BERNICE ONLINE: You know you'd still hit it.

BERNICE ONLINE: Drink until she's pretty enough to take home.

Twisted

YK
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-02-11 20:24:17 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
No, the new skill trading is not "pay to win".

And yes, yes it did Devalue some very important things in the game. In odd ways too, last night was the 1st ngiht in a long time I didn't play EVE for at least an hour. I've got 20 bil in my wallet just from selling unwanted SP from alts I don't even use, and this is without touching my main characters (the 4 I use everytime I log in) or the 4 other alts I sometimes use. But last night it was like 'what's the point, it's not like I need the isk lol'.

And I will be able to do it again and again and again because of my +5 learning implant SP farming toons. This lessens the need to fly around in space actually doing things to get isk, which lessens the excitement of getting a good spawn or good drop or finding a good complex or exploration site.



CCP did not devalue EVE, you did by your choice. Nobody is forcing you to have SP farming toons. That was your choice. I don't have farming alts (A choice I have made) and I enjoy the game. If it kills your enjoyment, don't do it and log in instead and do what you enjoy. Seems like your greed has been your own undoing, not CCPs.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#31 - 2016-02-11 20:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
sero Hita wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
No, the new skill trading is not "pay to win".

And yes, yes it did Devalue some very important things in the game. In odd ways too, last night was the 1st ngiht in a long time I didn't play EVE for at least an hour. I've got 20 bil in my wallet just from selling unwanted SP from alts I don't even use, and this is without touching my main characters (the 4 I use everytime I log in) or the 4 other alts I sometimes use. But last night it was like 'what's the point, it's not like I need the isk lol'.

And I will be able to do it again and again and again because of my +5 learning implant SP farming toons. This lessens the need to fly around in space actually doing things to get isk, which lessens the excitement of getting a good spawn or good drop or finding a good complex or exploration site.



CCP did not devalue EVE, you did by your choice. Nobody is forcing you to have SP farming toons. That was your choice. I don't have farming alts (A choice I have made) and I enjoy the game. If it kills your enjoyment, don't do it and log in instead and do what you enjoy. Seems like your greed has been your own undoing, not CCPs.


Taking advantage of free candy isn't greed, it's taking advantage of free candy. you'd have had to be stupid to not cash in.

And failing to do so would have put me at a competitive disadvantage. The person who choose to not cash in is now at a disadvantage to me, I can lose Machariels in DED 10/10s twice a day for the next 30 days without feeling any pain where as the person who could have and didn't didn't do what I did loses one Mach and feels the pain instantly. Just using that as an exmaple, I don't lose ships in PVE.

What you just typed amounts to "hey, it doesn't matter if something is broken and has deleterious affects on the overall game, just choose not to do it and ignore all the bad things that are about to happen around you and it's fine!". That's naive and unrealistic thinking.


Regardless of CCPs financial situation, the last thing EVE Online needed was another farmable wealth faucet. It has to many already. Among other things, this one is going to WIDEN the wealth gap between rich-old and poor-new, because the new players will take this skill point short cut (not understanding that it's a mistake to move too quickly), lose expensive ships they never should have been in, and perhaps buy more plex to buy more ships....from the rich established players that make them. It was funny when a few people did it via the character baazar, it won't be funny as more people do it now that it's easier to do.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#32 - 2016-02-11 20:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Quote:
Taking advantage of free candy isn't greed, it's taking advantage of free candy. you'd have had to be stupid to not cash in.


Been in a lot of vans, haven't we? Pirate

--Curious Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Annemariela Antonela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2016-02-11 20:50:49 UTC
I am a recently subbed pilot. I want to PvP with my corp. Injectors made it possible to meet certain fits, and bring core skills up to somewhere in which I might actually be able to x up and be useful. I have used several of them, and I think anyone in my position would, and then observe that the diminishing returns are harder to stomach than the waiting.

There are diminishing returns.

I don't think the sentimentality or pearlclutching are necessary, considering a constantly evolving game.

“Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.”

― Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon
Corvald Tyrska
Valknetra
#34 - 2016-02-11 21:18:44 UTC
I'm curious as to how exactly you see the net effect of buying skill injectors any different from buying characters on the character bazaar?

For years people willing to drop the cash have been able to buy characters with any amount of skills they wanted. The only difference now is that you customize those skills a little more and name the character how you want to name them. Perhaps you can explain why this level of customization deserves endless forum whining and complaining and how it is totally game breaking.

EVE is no more or less pay 2 win then it was in the past.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#35 - 2016-02-11 21:44:23 UTC
Buba Neagra wrote:
No SP comes out of thin air so I see nothing wrong here.

I'd say this new feature is a SP sink since you extract 500k and you can inject from 500k to 150k.
Few will use injectors, most of the player base ain't got the money to do it so no big change overall.


Not just is the diminishing returns an SP sink, but injectors being blown up is an SP sink.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#36 - 2016-02-11 21:49:00 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Buba Neagra wrote:
No SP comes out of thin air so I see nothing wrong here.

I'd say this new feature is a SP sink since you extract 500k and you can inject from 500k to 150k.
Few will use injectors, most of the player base ain't got the money to do it so no big change overall.


Not just is the diminishing returns an SP sink, but injectors being blown up is an SP sink.



in EVE you can be whatever you want, its a shame some choose to be stupid

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#37 - 2016-02-11 21:50:35 UTC
/sigh.

Alright, how am I being stupid?

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#38 - 2016-02-11 21:53:38 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
/sigh.

Alright, how am I being stupid?


didnt mean you i mean people dying in haulers with injectors in the cargo Roll

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2016-02-11 21:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Jenn aSide wrote:
Taking advantage of free candy isn't greed, it's taking advantage of free candy. you'd have had to be stupid to not cash in.
Some 70milliom SP I have is unused and yet still not cashed in. Free candy right there not taken advantage of. Why? Because that's a part of my characters: their identity and their capability alongside several years of conscious decision making. Part of what I enjoy about the game is expanding those abilities and efficiencies, and my preferred method of doing so is entirely intact.

And you're right, I have to be more careful than you with my decisions. I haven't devalued both my characters and my experience then blamed CCP for me having made the choice to do so.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#40 - 2016-02-11 21:59:37 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:


Skill trading is not pay to win. Those who think otherwise are the ones that will lose all their money and be podded back to World of Warcraft, where they belong.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9vEmr6V6c8


Then podded again.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?