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Dev blog: Structure fitting in the EVE: Citadel Expansion

First post
Author
Hexatron Ormand
Aperture Space
WYNX
#121 - 2016-02-11 13:04:42 UTC
Uh 400 strontium clathrates for 1 build cycle that gives 40 blocks? So far this was only used for reinforcements.. so you filled the starbase up once and haven't needed it for a long time.
The ice barely gives any strontium.. so 400 per batch is way too high imho. Just thinking about how my ice product storage looks right at this moment.. i have tons of isotopes.. i have tons of heavy water and liquid ozone.. but i barely have any strontium.

Stornium is only a minor component in most ice types, often giving you 1 single strontium if you refine a block of ice. In my opinion, needing 400 of them per 1 batch, giving you 40 blocks is a bit over the top.
Gaius Clabbacus
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#122 - 2016-02-11 13:11:36 UTC
IIRC it has already been stated that all citadels defenses must be manned (unlike current POS defenses). Assuming that manning citadel weapons is restricted to corp members, this is a solid change in favor of local ownership of assets (instead of far-away holding corps or rental masters).

Hope CCP sticks to their guns on this one (pun intended).
Sisi Collins
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#123 - 2016-02-11 13:19:22 UTC
Gaius Clabbacus wrote:
IIRC it has already been stated that all citadels defenses must be manned (unlike current POS defenses). Assuming that manning citadel weapons is restricted to corp members, this is a solid change in favor of local ownership of assets (instead of far-away holding corps or rental masters).

Hope CCP sticks to their guns on this one (pun intended).



As far as I know it's already explained in EVE vegas that there will be different groups within citadel management hierarchy. So owner can make group of defenders - and they can be anyone
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#124 - 2016-02-11 13:33:37 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Lineothel wrote:
Quick question on the possibility of using the Citadel as a revenue producing mechanic.

If I fit the market, clone and office modules to my Citadel, I understand that there will be NPC taxes involved in their operation according to the Dev Blog. My question is will the corp that launches the Citadel be able to reap some of the tax money, office fees, brokers fees etc of the different types of transactions that occur at its Citadel?

Thanks!
Lineothel


We're planning on replacing some of the NPC taxes with player taxes when they're from Citadel services. For example, the Market NPC broker fees would be replaced by player broker fees that would be paid to the structure owner. That also means we're probably going to increase market NPC taxes to make Citadel more attractive at some point.


By how much ?

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#125 - 2016-02-11 13:55:20 UTC
Thanks for the answers, CCP. Do you have any for my questions?

If the medium citadel is intended to replace a POS, does it share one attribute with a POS: The ability to unanchor, repackage, and remove it from space in just a few hours?

How long does it take to scoop a citadel? Is it different for different sizes?

What happens to the rigs?

What happens to the stored stuff?

I'm thinking about a mobile market that follows incursions around, among other things.

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Jean-Luc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2016-02-11 14:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jean-Luc
Vincent Athena wrote:
Thanks for the answers, CCP. Do you have any for my questions?

If the medium citadel is intended to replace a POS, does it share one attribute with a POS: The ability to unanchor, repackage, and remove it from space in just a few hours?

How long does it take to scoop a citadel? Is it different for different sizes?

What happens to the rigs?

What happens to the stored stuff?

I'm thinking about a mobile market that follows incursions around, among other things.


All your question have been answered in previous devblogs

Quote:
Missed a structure blog? Have a look at the following:

Back into the structure – introducing the structure changes coming to EVE Online and our long term plan
Shake my Citadel – listing the first structure class to be worked on, as well as general mechanics
Citadels, siege and you, v2 – capture and defense mechanics for EVE’s new structures
I feel safe in citadel city – how assets are going to be saved and moved on structure destruction.
Building your citadel, one block at a time – how Citadels are acquired and built


Have a good read.
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#127 - 2016-02-11 14:23:05 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
And a question that I asked before, will Crest have market endpoints for Citadels and are they public?

And can you make a market in a citadel access to only bleus?


Market orders won't appear in CREST because the visibility of orders depends on which character is looking (access groups make this complicated).

We *might* add public player markets to the public crest data, that's a big might though since we have a lot of other stuff to do at the moment.


I understand you that this may not appear right away, but Crest integration will become 100% required.

If you want player citadels to take over NPC stations, you need to make sure CREST integrates in some way. Blues should be able to pull data from the Citadels they can see, but most importantly, if someone sets up a public trade post CREST integration is almost a necessity.

People who NEED this in order to make you grand plan of player owned Citadel Markets a reality:

- Sellers - How many large scale traders use some sort of tool that relies on prices and market order API info to keep track of hundreds to thousands of orders? I would guess all of them. Even random players in null will use Eve-Central to quickly price check items in high sec, etc. If you move the market from an NPC station to a Citadel and that sort of information is not available, sellers will not be happy.

- Asset safety - Sellers will not want to put their stuff in a citadel that can get blown up. Why? Because they will not want to
pay to have it safely returned. It would be worth the loss of a few percentage points of profit to sell in an NPC station that
can never be removed.

- Buyers - How many people use eve-central or eve-praisal to see how much their stuff is worth? I would guess more than 75% of the player base. Same issue as above, if the information is not available your plan will not work.

- Industrialist - They need the API information on markets to judge what they are making. Repeat reasons from above.


What will happen if CREST integration is not available:

Sellers will not move from the NPC stations because they do not want to manually manage their orders. Even if you raise the taxes at the NPC stations, most large scale traders will not move. It would not be worth the extra work required for a few extra %.

Buyers will not move because the sellers do not move. If I look up a price in eve central, I am not going to check the market every jump/region to find a lower price in a citadel that I cannot see on the web.

Central market Hub Theory (Jita) - This will not break Jita, Amarr, etc. as the central places to do business. There is a reason that the last time you guys tried to break up the central hub by changing some of the stargates, it moved to Jita. There MUST be a central market or group of hubs that acts like it.

Prices will rise by whatever percentage you increase the NPC taxes. This is because the main hubs will still be in NPC stations and people who do sell in Citadels will still sell at those prices because every price in Eve is somehow connected to "Jita" price.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#128 - 2016-02-11 14:25:51 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Thanks for the answers, CCP. Do you have any for my questions?

If the medium citadel is intended to replace a POS, does it share one attribute with a POS: The ability to unanchor, repackage, and remove it from space in just a few hours?

How long does it take to scoop a citadel? Is it different for different sizes?

What happens to the rigs?

What happens to the stored stuff?

I'm thinking about a mobile market that follows incursions around, among other things.

you, uh, know that is out the window because a medium can't fit a market right
Yasuo Aldent
Hammer of Hephaestus
Reign of Olympus
#129 - 2016-02-11 14:50:56 UTC
So, I noticed that the service modules are the item that now incurs the fuel block usage, and also whether it's active or not, it still incurs this usage. So.. When the later structures release such as drilling platform, ship assembly platform, etc, what's stopping me from sticking up any size I want in HS, using an NPC station for cloning, and sticking up these other structures to do my jobs, causing the citadel to not cost me beans in fuel once it's up? This sounds a bit broken to me. I think to get better usage out of the service modules, they should incur the cost of fuel when they are in use. So, a certain fuel startup cost (i.e. like 100 blocks or something) and then use the 5 or 10 per hour afterwards.

Also, if a service module runs out of fuel and there was enough fuel to power the other modules, what happens to that service? or to the citadel for that matter? What goes offline?

Additionally, I'm not sure if anyone else is worried, but allowing the keepstar in HS is just about stupid. NO ONE will ever take these things down unless they are offline in space. Because I'm assuming you need a wardec, and there's not that many HS corps out there that can supply 75 1000dps ships to cap out the dps max to reinforce that sucker. Or if it's offline, it'll take over an hour to pop it. AND from the previous devblogs, all you get is a km! The drop can only be picked up by the owners. That seems like a large risk in resources for practically NO gain.

I figure that most HS corps would be able to bring about 15-30 ships that may or may not have 1000dps. Which means, it's going to take them at least a hour to reinforce or 3 hours to destroy if offline. Keepstars will become like large towers in HS: the moon's useless, it's going to take 5 hours+ to take it down, we're going to have to wardec a corp... why bother?
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2016-02-11 15:08:43 UTC
Yasuo Aldent wrote:
So, I noticed that the service modules.....................

Additionally, I'm not sure if anyone else is worried, but allowing the keepstar in HS is just about stupid......................


I think your first point is a little confused - but essentially correct. Provided you don't use any fuel-using service modules in your citadel (you just live in it) - then it will cost no fuel.

However, whilst I disagree, if the XL Citadels do become considered 'invulnerable' because no one will bother to take them down - this will actually result in a proliferation of them in HS!

I actually think that the first few will indeed get destroyed............................Twisted

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium

Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#131 - 2016-02-11 15:36:53 UTC
Yasuo Aldent wrote:

I figure that most HS corps would be able to bring about 15-30 ships that may or may not have 1000dps. Which means, it's going to take them at least a hour to reinforce or 3 hours to destroy if offline. Keepstars will become like large towers in HS: the moon's useless, it's going to take 5 hours+ to take it down, we're going to have to wardec a corp... why bother?


All citadels drop a % of their build materials as loot.

Whatever % that is, a % of 70-100B is definitely worth the time to wardec and take it down. I imagine there are corps like Marmites, CODE, etc. that are doing the calculations to figure out how fast an XL can kill a suicide destroyer vs. how many you would lose vs. the time to blow it up. If that ISK loss is less than the % of the 70-100B, they will do it just for the grins and profit.
JetStream Drenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2016-02-11 15:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: JetStream Drenard
What about moving these things:

There are several instances in the game where POS's need to be moved a lot, and with the incredible expense of the more secure citadels, this seems like a very important consideration.

Will they need to be repackaged? will modules need to be removed and replaced. Will the Rigs be destroyed? Will any assets inside move with it and be available after the move is complete?

edit: also what will be the anchor/unanchor online/offline times? (or new equivalents)
Axena Vulvar
Warp to 100
#133 - 2016-02-11 15:44:10 UTC
What are the plans about fast ship switching at a citadel?

Situation now on a Ship Maintenace Array:
Warp to the SMA (location) > board new ship (previous one gets stored automatically > warp back into fight

Station:
Warp to the station > dock up > switch ship > undock > warp back into fight (takes much longer as you mostly need to stop and realign before)

You understand the big advantage of SMAs over stations for inhabitants of the solar system?


How will it be on Citadels?
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2016-02-11 15:50:55 UTC
Yasuo Aldent wrote:
all you get is a km!


you mean a 150+ bill killmail. yeah thast not worth anything right right.. thats why all them people hunt those supercapitals for hours just for a killmail
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#135 - 2016-02-11 15:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Yasuo Aldent wrote:
So, a certain fuel startup cost (i.e. like 100 blocks or something) and then use the 5 or 10 per hour afterwards.


So you think it should work exactly the way it was described to work in the devblog which is the subject of the thread on which you are commenting?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#136 - 2016-02-11 17:59:20 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Thanks for the answers, CCP. Do you have any for my questions?

If the medium citadel is intended to replace a POS, does it share one attribute with a POS: The ability to unanchor, repackage, and remove it from space in just a few hours?

How long does it take to scoop a citadel? Is it different for different sizes?

What happens to the rigs?

What happens to the stored stuff?

I'm thinking about a mobile market that follows incursions around, among other things.


All those answers and more are given in the other dev blogs that are linked at the start of this dev blog. Give em a read
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#137 - 2016-02-11 18:02:49 UTC
Michal Jita wrote:
Can't find this spelt out in black and white anywhere, so would appreciate a clarification:

Does Sov affect fuel cost for citadel and other new structures?

Thanks


Sov only affects the repair timer as stated in this blog http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/citadels-sieges-and-you-v2/

Nothing about sov fuel cost stated yet
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#138 - 2016-02-11 18:05:45 UTC
If you have questions its best to read all the previous dev blogs, so many questions about things that have already been answered! Shocked
Barrett Fruitcake
Doomheim
#139 - 2016-02-11 18:06:35 UTC
Hexatron Ormand wrote:


Stornium is only a minor component in most ice types, often giving you 1 single strontium if you refine a block of ice. In my opinion, needing 400 of them per 1 batch, giving you 40 blocks is a bit over the top.



Maybe they are thinking of removing Siege Cycles from Dreads.

John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
The Bastion
#140 - 2016-02-11 18:11:53 UTC  |  Edited by: John McCreedy
Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:
John McCreedy wrote:
Fuelling stations now, great. The game is getting further and further away from the things that make it fun and clogging you down with more and more micromanagement. You should be freeing up our time to focus on the fun things in Eve, not tying us down further with logistics.


Well. I see your point, but I presume you are meaning that you need to start fueling stuctures that replace outposts as nothing is chanhed for the stations.

Also, in the other hand. There will be lot of people with e.g. medium Citadels who don't need to fuel them at all! So it's so much easier for them compared to current POSes.

Also, if you want easy XL citadel to replace your outpost, don't add any services to it. Whow. no fuel costs...

Note also that getting and transporting fuel t your citadel can be content to others.


I've re-read that part of the blog and it makes no distinction between Citadel sizes and therefore implies that fuel is required for the running of them all. We have existed for almost thirteen years without stations requiring fuel and all of a sudden, some bright spark at CCP thinks this is a good idea. It's not. It's not because it makes the game less accessible to those with less time on their hands.

As for not adding services, what would be the point in all that outlay just to have a place to log off? Use a safe spot and safe log. Use a Cap ship for refitting/re-shipping for far less time, money and ongoing effort. Not adding services defeats the entire object of building a Citadel in the first place. Better to add fuel requirements to those structures that will eventually replace what most people use a POS for: Moon miners and reactors and jump bridges.

To CCP I say this: Look at your competition in the MMO market. Where an equivalent applies to Citadels, for example Guild Halls in GW2, Stations in STO or Ships and apartments in SWTOR, none require their players to fuel the bloody things. They allow for players to jump straight in to the aspect of the game they find most fun, be it PvP or PvE or just exploration. Why should Eve make it harder for players to enjoy the same experience?

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.