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Dev blog: Structure fitting in the EVE: Citadel Expansion

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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#101 - 2016-02-11 11:04:29 UTC
Mr Grape Drink wrote:
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP: To help with all the concerns about fuel, I recommend you take advantage of something that you already built into citadels: Infinite storage.

Store the fuel in a hangar, one big stack that can handle months of use, so I do not have to deal with it very often.




CCP needs to come out on how they plan to have citadels charge these fuel blocks for industry..
i mean how many blocks would it take to cook up ships/mods

do they think 1 person would be the only one making things in a citadel?? what about the fuel cost of 100 builders running jobs at various times throughout the day?

the numbers are way off.. and detached from reality.


Huh?

Its going to take a set amount per hour per array. Whether 0 or 100 people use said array its going to take that set amount of blocks per hour to keep it running. Pretty simple math. And the numbers they have so far of 10-40 blocks per hour...not what I would call off or detached from any reality.

And I'm guessing they'll have a Fuel Bay that everything runs from. Probably why they have everything take fuel at the top of the hour no matter what, that way you know when all your ***** gonna go offline!


This man. He gets is. It is also likely the Fuel Bay will have infinite capacity as well. May not want to draw fuel directly from corp hangars to avoid confusion with divisions.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#102 - 2016-02-11 11:06:11 UTC
Lineothel wrote:
Quick question on the possibility of using the Citadel as a revenue producing mechanic.

If I fit the market, clone and office modules to my Citadel, I understand that there will be NPC taxes involved in their operation according to the Dev Blog. My question is will the corp that launches the Citadel be able to reap some of the tax money, office fees, brokers fees etc of the different types of transactions that occur at its Citadel?

Thanks!
Lineothel


We're planning on replacing some of the NPC taxes with player taxes when they're from Citadel services. For example, the Market NPC broker fees would be replaced by player broker fees that would be paid to the structure owner. That also means we're probably going to increase market NPC taxes to make Citadel more attractive at some point.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#103 - 2016-02-11 11:11:19 UTC
RainReaper wrote:
I have one question here!
I know that citadels have their asset safety mechanic that protects inventories and such upon being destroyed.
So keeping expensive things like bpos and such in there is no problem cause you wont completely lose those if the citadel gets blasted.
However! Is manufacturing/research stations gonna have that same kind of asset safety? If not then people are really gonna risk it if they put their blueprints in one of those, personaly i would not use those then and just use my citadel for all my research/manufacturing, no matter how inefficient it is.


Remember the manufacturing and research capabilities will come from service modules. The new assembly and research structures don't need to be here for these capabilities to be added. So you could have manufacturing and research at a Citadel. But yes, in all cases what's planned is that if you have a job running, you lose the materials used in the job, but not the blueprint. And yes, we also want for the new assembly and research structures to have asset safety for the reasons you listed.

Ex:


  • In a Citadel, Assembly Array or Research Laboratory you will have asset safety
  • If you're running a Megathron manufacturing job in one of those and the structure gets destroyed, you will get the Megathron BPO back, but you will lose the minerals used in the manufacturing job.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2016-02-11 11:13:05 UTC
Querns wrote:
Actually, thinking on it -- why can citadels have a reprocessing service module at all? It isn't needed in the interim of citadels release to outpost removal, because, presumably, drilling platforms will be available.


This makes sense, citadels would be better for a research service or similar since they focus on security.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#105 - 2016-02-11 11:15:49 UTC
Tara Anju wrote:
I have a question I have been wondering about for quite some time even before the new structures where even announced: what are market services in stations or in future market hub service modules good for ?

Since I can access the market through the main EVE menu at any time and anywhere - even in space - and can buy or sell items on any station even if it does not have a market service ... why on earth should I waste a service slot on fitting a market hub module ?


We want player owned Markets to have less taxes than NPC ones. The difference will be used by the Citadel owner to set his own taxes and make a profit. Of course it may not prevent players to set their own taxes to be higher than NPC markets, but they won't attract many people if they do that. The principle is the same than player owned customs offices.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#106 - 2016-02-11 11:18:15 UTC
bp920091 wrote:
Ran the numbers with a current loadout of stront and fuel blocks (given the 8.8-9 stront/block number you'd get from a 400/run use).

Currently, to build 175k blocks, i'll use roughly 350 Compressed Dark Glitter and 350 Compressed Glare Crust (plus, you know, Isotopes and PI stuff). To generate the stront needed for the same number of fuel blocks, i'll need 12,500 units of Krystallos (the most stront rich ice in eve). To put that in perspective, that's 15.6 TIMES the combined Dark Glitter and Glare Crust requirements, and i'm still missing heavy water.

Adding stront to a block is the worst idea, but the numbers are so far from being OK logistically, that it's ridiculous. How about 0.25 Stront a block. This will require 10 stront a load, and, while still require an adjustment in the ice purchased, brings the total logistical level from "Completely Unreasonable" to "Actually Practical"


Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again.
Andromeda Duodi
Operation Fishbowl Inc.
#107 - 2016-02-11 11:21:48 UTC
I haven't seen the idea of capital ships being moored on the outside of the citadel been mentioned in a while, has this idea been ditched entirely?
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#108 - 2016-02-11 11:24:14 UTC
Andromeda Duodi wrote:
I haven't seen the idea of capital ships being moored on the outside of the citadel been mentioned in a while, has this idea been ditched entirely?



'Tethered' and no...

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2016-02-11 11:29:56 UTC
A suggestion on the stront issue: Make strontium clathrates refine into strontium isotopes with a much lower volume for use in fuel. No issues rebalancing anything else that uses existing stront then.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#110 - 2016-02-11 11:36:31 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
RainReaper wrote:
I have one question here!
I know that citadels have their asset safety mechanic that protects inventories and such upon being destroyed.
So keeping expensive things like bpos and such in there is no problem cause you wont completely lose those if the citadel gets blasted.
However! Is manufacturing/research stations gonna have that same kind of asset safety? If not then people are really gonna risk it if they put their blueprints in one of those, personaly i would not use those then and just use my citadel for all my research/manufacturing, no matter how inefficient it is.


Remember the manufacturing and research capabilities will come from service modules. The new assembly and research structures don't need to be here for these capabilities to be added. So you could have manufacturing and research at a Citadel. But yes, in all cases what's planned is that if you have a job running, you lose the materials used in the job, but not the blueprint. And yes, we also want for the new assembly and research structures to have asset safety for the reasons you listed.

Ex:


  • In a Citadel, Assembly Array or Research Laboratory you will have asset safety
  • If you're running a Megathron manufacturing job in one of those and the structure gets destroyed, you will get the Megathron BPO back, but you will lose the minerals used in the manufacturing job.


Since you pay a release payment for asset release, how are tech II bpo's rated in ISK?

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#111 - 2016-02-11 11:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSmokingHertog
And a question that I asked before, will Crest have market endpoints for Citadels and are they public?

And can you make a market in a citadel access to only bleus?

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Sisi Collins
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#112 - 2016-02-11 11:49:51 UTC
Sorry, may be I'm not right, but cost and % for refine rigs seems for me ridiculous

From Dev blog - Building your Citadel, one block at a time

X-large Reprocessing Efficiency I - roughly costs 2,268 bil - 59% refine

X-large Reprocessing Efficiency II - roughly costs 22,989 bil - 60% refine

Are you insane guys????

Who the hell in his mind will pay for t2 rig at such price if it gives just 1% more than t1???

CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#113 - 2016-02-11 11:55:56 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
And a question that I asked before, will Crest have market endpoints for Citadels and are they public?

And can you make a market in a citadel access to only bleus?


Market orders won't appear in CREST because the visibility of orders depends on which character is looking (access groups make this complicated).

We *might* add public player markets to the public crest data, that's a big might though since we have a lot of other stuff to do at the moment.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#114 - 2016-02-11 11:57:41 UTC
Rabbit P wrote:
can CCP state clear that "no shattered wormhole Citadel"?

it only stated in CSM Citadel FAQ , and now said again " All area of space " without mentioning a word of "shattered wormhole"

just a clarification is needed.


No citadels in shattered wormholes, that includes Thera.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#115 - 2016-02-11 12:40:26 UTC
Sisi Collins wrote:
Sorry, may be I'm not right, but cost and % for refine rigs seems for me ridiculous

From Dev blog - Building your Citadel, one block at a time

X-large Reprocessing Efficiency I - roughly costs 2,268 bil - 59% refine

X-large Reprocessing Efficiency II - roughly costs 22,989 bil - 60% refine

Are you insane guys????

Who the hell in his mind will pay for t2 rig at such price if it gives just 1% more than t1???



If you refined 1 trillion isk in a montly basis that 1% adds up pretty darn fast
Croc Evil
Croc's Family Business
#116 - 2016-02-11 12:46:03 UTC
400 Strontium per one batch (40 fuel). That is a huge amount. Even 40 would be a lot from perspective of high and low sec ice mining (where 1 ice block = 1 Strontium). Can you devs please clarify why such large amount is proposed?
Sisi Collins
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#117 - 2016-02-11 12:57:34 UTC
Structure Defensive Systems: reduces capacitor need of all structure defensive modules by 2% per level (not listing specific modules here since most of them won’t make it in the first Citadel release)

So you're introducing Citadels and ability to destroy them in the first Citadel release, but not introducing most of modules for defence citadels?

So attackers will have advantage at first Citadel release over defenders or this mean just in future it will become much harder to destroy Citadel???
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2016-02-11 12:57:55 UTC
In combat, will we be able to target different parts of the citadel? e.g. the weapons and e-war sections

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
RainReaper
RRN Industries
#119 - 2016-02-11 13:01:01 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
RainReaper wrote:
I have one question here!
I know that citadels have their asset safety mechanic that protects inventories and such upon being destroyed.
So keeping expensive things like bpos and such in there is no problem cause you wont completely lose those if the citadel gets blasted.
However! Is manufacturing/research stations gonna have that same kind of asset safety? If not then people are really gonna risk it if they put their blueprints in one of those, personaly i would not use those then and just use my citadel for all my research/manufacturing, no matter how inefficient it is.


Remember the manufacturing and research capabilities will come from service modules. The new assembly and research structures don't need to be here for these capabilities to be added. So you could have manufacturing and research at a Citadel. But yes, in all cases what's planned is that if you have a job running, you lose the materials used in the job, but not the blueprint. And yes, we also want for the new assembly and research structures to have asset safety for the reasons you listed.

Ex:


  • In a Citadel, Assembly Array or Research Laboratory you will have asset safety
  • If you're running a Megathron manufacturing job in one of those and the structure gets destroyed, you will get the Megathron BPO back, but you will lose the minerals used in the manufacturing job.


great! thanks for leting me know!
Michal Jita
Lords Of The Universe
#120 - 2016-02-11 13:02:20 UTC
Can't find this spelt out in black and white anywhere, so would appreciate a clarification:

Does Sov affect fuel cost for citadel and other new structures?

Thanks