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pajedas
Doomheim
#61 - 2016-02-11 00:11:47 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I have nothing to add but love to argue.

Dear CCP,

Please explain why your scientists are unable to transfer skills without loss.

I can jump countless light years to a clone without losing any...

πŸ‡
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2016-02-11 00:22:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
pajedas wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I have nothing to add but love to argue.

Dear CCP,

Please explain why your scientists are unable to transfer skills without loss.

I can jump countless light years to a clone without losing any...
You do realize you asked for science from the space submarine sim where neck needles physically extract tangible, general purpose knowledge patterns that were somehow inextricably tied to a particular capacity while in the prior owners head, right?

Just asking because at some point one has to realize that "science" is whatever they make up to justify the mechanic when it comes to the parts that don't exist.
pajedas
Doomheim
#63 - 2016-02-11 00:26:34 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Just asking because at some point one has to realize that "science" is whatever they make up to justify the mechanic when it comes to the parts that don't exist.

That was my whole point. It can't be explained.

You're a little slow on the uptake, aren't you?

πŸ‡
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2016-02-11 00:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
pajedas wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Just asking because at some point one has to realize that "science" is whatever they make up to justify the mechanic when it comes to the parts that don't exist.

That was my whole point. It can't be explained.

You're a little slow on the uptake, aren't you?
It can't be explained no matter what the particulars of the mechanic are, but I guess that only matters when you aren't getting what you specifically want.

Tell you what: "issues with synaptic pathway density interfering with the sudden application of new patterns causing loss as the more numerous existing pathways must be reworked to accommodate the new patterns while maintaining the integrity of the old ones, which is a great deal more difficult than simply 'photocopying' the existing patterns over to a blank slate or simply completely overriding old patterns"

That's how easy this is to just hand wave away. Yet that's what you're asking for as if it has some real meaning.
pajedas
Doomheim
#65 - 2016-02-11 00:40:05 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
It can't be explained no matter what the particulars of the mechanic are, but I guess that only matters when you aren't getting what you specifically want.

You sir, are a royal pain the the arse.

I've established that all things (in Eve) are possible with the stroke of a keyboard. Therefore, the only possible explanation is that CCP did the math and predicted an optimal revenue stream with this path.

I already know the answers and the questions weren't meant for you.

So, why are you struggling so hard to carry the torch for CCP?

Stock options?

πŸ‡
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2016-02-11 00:55:11 UTC
pajedas wrote:
I've established that all things (in Eve) are possible with the stroke of a keyboard.
And it's been explained to you why that wasn't done several times.

pajedas wrote:
Therefore, the only possible explanation is that CCP did the math and predicted an optimal revenue stream with this path.
Maybe, and maybe as stated they didn't want perfect respec'ing SP behemoths to be a trivial reality as already posted several times.

pajedas wrote:
I already know the answers and the questions weren't meant for you.
Then why did you post them here where the focus is player discussion? Also how can you be so sure you know when it's pretty clear to most others that there is a different factor at play?

Further, why would you even ask a question suited for the eve fiction group when your concern is some misplaced notion of profit milking from the players least in need to spend money to participate?

pajedas wrote:
So, why are you struggling so hard to carry the torch for CCP?

Stock options?
Pretty sure CCPs stock is privately held now, or rather I thought I read something to that effect.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#67 - 2016-02-11 01:34:39 UTC
pajedas wrote:

You sir, are a royal pain the the arse.

I've established that all things (in Eve) are possible with the stroke of a keyboard. Therefore, the only possible explanation is that CCP did the math and predicted an optimal revenue stream with this path.

I already know the answers and the questions weren't meant for you.

So, why are you struggling so hard to carry the torch for CCP?

Stock options?


You've point-blank ignored this question twice in this thread so far, so one more time. If what you say is true, why did CCP:

* get rid of SP loss on clone death
* let people lose SPs when they forget to re-activate queues
* use less than L5 training implants

I look forward to you ignoring my question again, you troll you.
pajedas
Doomheim
#68 - 2016-02-11 02:27:14 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
You've point-blank ignored this question twice in this thread so far, so one more time. If what you say is true, why did CCP:

* get rid of SP loss on clone death
* let people lose SPs when they forget to re-activate queues
* use less than L5 training implants

I look forward to you ignoring my question again, you troll you.

1) It was a stupid mechanic.
2) It was a stupid mechanic.
3) I have no idea what you mean.

πŸ‡
Avvy
Doomheim
#69 - 2016-02-11 02:47:23 UTC
pajedas wrote:
Gauis Aldent wrote:
What they are saying is, if you decide to inject more SP in your head through these new highly accelerated methods, that there is a diminishing return involved. You can't just inject and inject and inject and expect it to keep working like it did the first time. There is a reason normal skill training is slow.

Using the same technical basis for your argument, explain why "on the first injection" a 10m SP player will get 1:1 but a 60m SP player will get 3:5.



I started injecting at 12.5+ million sp, at a rate of 400k per injector.

21 injectors later and the sp lost from the game was 2.1 million sp.

Do I care? No, because I knew what I was purchasing.


The only possible reason you would care is if you are trying to transfer between your characters. Then the lost sp would be from your own pool of sp. But even then you know if you are going to transfer it you will lose some, so if you're worried about losing it don't transfer it.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#70 - 2016-02-11 02:49:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cidanel Afuran
pajedas wrote:

1) It was a stupid mechanic.
2) It was a stupid mechanic.
3) I have no idea what you mean.


1) it am trying to find a way to back out of what I said that completely invalidates my point
2) it am trying to find a way to back out of what I said that completely invalidates my point
3) do you not know what training implants are?

come on man.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2016-02-11 04:26:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
pajedas wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I have nothing to add but love to argue.

Dear CCP,

Please explain why your scientists are unable to transfer skills without loss.

I can jump countless light years to a clone without losing any...



FFS.

It. Is. A. Game. Balance. Issue.

CCP wants to make it so trying to go from 500,000 SP to 200 million SP has an increasing cost. Also, they don't want people re-specializing their characters instantly to suit their purposes without some form of trade off or cost. Enter the diminishing marginal rate of return on SP injectors.

It has f--- all to do with scientists and is actually Dev concern about game balance. There are lots of things in this game that don't make sense except from a game balance view point. For somebody who has been playing since 2005 you should know this.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2016-02-11 04:40:04 UTC
The SP minigame was always a stupid waste of time.

Personally I like all the weird training my various alts have that they never use anymore, it forms part of that characters history ... "hey look there is that mining foreman he trained way back when he owned an orca before he moved to that lowsec corp" sort of thing.

Then again I have always regarded min-maxing and optimizing in games as a form of OCD insanity anyway.
Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#73 - 2016-02-11 08:04:38 UTC
When I started today the basketball goal was ten feet off the ground. Now, it's just a foot and a half and I can look straight down the pipe without jumping! (I thought I'd never be able to slam dunk!)

As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#74 - 2016-02-11 11:14:56 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah?
Supposedly some people actually have petitioned that, and been given SP.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#75 - 2016-02-11 16:02:31 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
I have never used more than level 3 learning implants, given I have virtually never been in high sec. I also took a three month break, forgot to cancel one subscription and didn't have anything in the queue. Should I petition CCP because of lost skillpoints for those? After all, they are my god given right, yeah?
Supposedly some people actually have petitioned that, and been given SP.


Now that's just ridiculous.
Lina Sovereign
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2016-02-11 16:09:19 UTC
I think it's just turning the game into a Pay2Win MMO with subscription.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#77 - 2016-02-11 18:59:52 UTC
Lina Sovereign wrote:
I think it's just turning the game into a Pay2Win MMO with subscription.



So if I have more SP I will always defeat you?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lina Sovereign
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2016-02-11 19:19:05 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lina Sovereign wrote:
I think it's just turning the game into a Pay2Win MMO with subscription.



So if I have more SP I will always defeat you?


You increase your chances. But it's not a big deal, I started to do PvP, it was fun, now I'll focus on HighSec it's fun too, less stress no risks.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2016-02-12 08:08:02 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lina Sovereign wrote:
I think it's just turning the game into a Pay2Win MMO with subscription.



So if I have more SP I will always defeat you?

It is pay to win but its been paytowin since plex n character buying were allowed.

if you have more SP likely will beat youre opponent yeah. all other variables being equal. comparisons based on wild inequalities are useless. thats why comparisons are almost always done with only the variable in question being inequal.

Jeff n Joe both sign to EvE, they skill up until they can both fly a Tristan. Joe buys a years worth of skill points and trains all engineering, electronics, weps to 5.

Jeffs about to get his ass kicked. Joe paid to win. Pretty simple.

the only time this is not true is with already trained chars with Tristen related skills maxed.

CCP Fozzie β€œWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. β€œ*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#80 - 2016-02-12 08:11:32 UTC
but then no knowledge on the game as joe is researching actually buying skills, how and where to inject them while jeff is learning to kite and do pvp mechanics.

jeff wins because jeff knows how to eve, be like jeff

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*