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Attention CCP: Find a way to bring back Tony Gonzales

Author
Lancashirian
New Eden Ballistics
#1 - 2012-01-09 17:40:17 UTC
I realize that there are financial issues preventing you from keeping him in-board at this point, but with the new, re-focused direction that the company is taking, I just hope you will be able to bring him back at some point. I just finished Templar One, and it was his best work yet. I could not put the damned thing down. And as usual, he left us wanting more.

So please, for the love of God, find a way to bring this very talented and insightful writer back into the fold.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-01-09 19:16:01 UTC
That's about the highest review you can give a book! I'll check it out.
Alain Kinsella
#3 - 2012-01-09 20:51:41 UTC
What would be better for both is to allow him to continue writing for Eve, without being an employee (allowing him to explore other venues as well).

Plenty of examples here (Weiss/Hickman, Salvatore, Knaak come to mind).

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).

Milo Caman
Anshar Incorporated
#4 - 2012-01-10 00:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Milo Caman
Lancashirian wrote:
I realize that there are financial issues preventing you from keeping him in-board at this point, but with the new, re-focused direction that the company is taking, I just hope you will be able to bring him back at some point. I just finished Templar One, and it was his best work yet. I could not put the damned thing down. And as usual, he left us wanting more.

So please, for the love of God, find a way to bring this very talented and insightful writer back into the fold.


I’m sorry, I really cannot sit down and read this post without responding, I really can’t.

Anyone, anyone citing TonyG as a good writer has evidently mastered the art of deceiving themselves in the face of adversity.

I would rather read a Jane Austen novel than read Empyrean Age again. Sure, it’s dull, but at least the tea parties and stuffy 19th century characters have some coherence, and don’t decimate and discredit an entire library of previous material.
TonyG appears to have a complete inability to write anything that doesn’t horrible deflower or discredit the PF.

Apparently no-one up top in the Amarr Empire takes religion seriously, while the drug fuelled orgies aren’t nearly as bad as the graphic descriptions of Matari slaves licking Karsoth’s flabby nipples, they still turn prominent figures in the EVE universe into a complete joke.

And let’s not forget the whole of Amarr utterly ignoring the godflesh doctrine conveniently ignoring all that stuff about cloning being unholy and simply bowing down to their new psychic overlord.

Maybe I’ve been watching a C2 static for four hours, maybe I have too much to drink, or perhaps I’m just irritated because I’ve had ****** combat losses in the last two days, but between the badly written sex scenes, the long, tedious macguffins, and the particularly wooden style of writing, I can quite happily say that TonyG is one of the worst writers to ever find a publisher.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-01-10 02:35:52 UTC
Milo Caman wrote:
Lancashirian wrote:
I realize that there are financial issues preventing you from keeping him in-board at this point, but with the new, re-focused direction that the company is taking, I just hope you will be able to bring him back at some point. I just finished Templar One, and it was his best work yet. I could not put the damned thing down. And as usual, he left us wanting more.

So please, for the love of God, find a way to bring this very talented and insightful writer back into the fold.


I’m sorry, I really cannot sit down and read this post without responding, I really can’t.

Anyone, anyone citing TonyG as a good writer has evidently mastered the art of deceiving themselves in the face of adversity.

I would rather read a Jane Austen novel than read Empyrean Age again. Sure, it’s dull, but at least the tea parties and stuffy 19th century characters have some coherence, and don’t decimate and discredit an entire library of previous material.
TonyG appears to have a complete inability to write anything that doesn’t horrible deflower or discredit the PF.

Apparently no-one up top in the Amarr Empire takes religion seriously ,while the drug fuelled orgies aren’t nearly as bad as the graphic descriptions of Matari slaves licking Karsoth’s flabby nipples, they still turn prominent figures in the EVE universe into a complete joke.

And let’s not forget the whole of Amarr utterly ignoring the godflesh doctrine conveniently ignoring all that stuff about cloning being unholy and simply bowing down to their new psychic overlord.

Maybe I’ve been watching a C2 static for four hours, maybe I have too much to drink, or perhaps I’m just irritated because I’ve had ****** combat losses in the last two days, but between the badly written sex scenes, the long, tedious macguffins, and the particularly wooden style of writing, I can quite happily say that TonyG is one of the worst writers to ever find a publisher.


We should preface our criticisms by acknowledging that writing a novel is hard. Making plots and characters work is extremely difficult, or we'd all be selling novels for a living. The novel was an improvement over EA. Tony has gotten markedly better at writing combat and his 'voice' for some of the other factions seems much improved IMO. That being said:

Bad:
The Jamyl scenes, and anything to do with the Amarr, just seemed absolutely ridiculous.

Apparently no one in authority can actually be religious or take the faith seriously? You don't kill and convert whole civilizations for 1,000 years and get a trillion believers without -some- people at the very top taking it very, very seriously and literally.

Sarum dying at 180 of 'old age' seems a bit odd when Khanid II is what, about 600 years old by now, and still kicking ass/taking names?

The argument that Sarum having a child would 'complicate' possible succession also doesn't hold water, as none of the other Heirs seem to have issues with their next-of-kin taking their spots after they fail the trials.

The idea of Sarum's inner circle all conveniently ignoring one of the central tenants of the faith (no cloning for Royals), also seems extremely far-fetched. What, they wouldn't notice a 180 year old man having a few clones around? You don't sweep that kind of thing under the rug in a zealot-filled religious autocracy. People find out, and the torches come out. I'm sure the elite let all sorts of moral depravities slide on occasion but clones for Royalty is a big, big no-no.

I know this sleeper/Jove thing has been building for a while, but I find it just completely unnecessary for anything in New Eden. You've got 4 main Empires, a dozen smaller factions, and a Galaxy of stories to tell, with a myriad of intricate relationships between factions an inside factions to explore. 15,000 year-old monsters from across the Galaxy just seem, I don't know, superfluous?

Mens seemed a bumbling fool rather than the chief executive of one of the largest companies in the cluster. Approaching the station early in the book in his Raven, we are treated to essentially a 'phone call argument' while he is being escorted by a good-sized Ishuukone fleet. He gets distracted and nearly collides with an escort ship? He mixes up the comm channels and talks to the fleet instead of his wife? Comic relief? I'm not saying there's no room for humor but the grand entrance of one of the central characters might not be the place to establish that kind of thing? *shrug*

I'd have to hope that any of the four Navies is smart enough not to suicide an expensive dreadnought for a teeny orbital strike.

Anyway filling up too much text for this. I think perhaps the way to go next time is a 'short story' anthology covering a wide scope instead of the 'large narrative' they've done for three books now.

In any case I wish Tony the best of luck with future writing, but EVE is maybe not the best PF for him to be tackling.



Sabik now, Sabik forever

Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#6 - 2012-01-10 05:52:44 UTC
Agreed with the previous two posts. I like Tony as a guy, and even think he can be a sometimes-good writer (I liked Ruthless for the most part). However, these novels are rather devastating.
resystol
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-01-10 08:31:48 UTC
I thoug this post was for the support of Tony G , so if dont like him as a writer then dont post here , I love both novels and think they are very good, and this my opinion which is no more important than the opinion of the other 2 guys who dont like the novels , so post only if you going to support if not, then there is plenty of room in general discussion for your opinions.

I support Tony G ,he develop the IP for 8 years , i mean cmon CCP.
Sakura Imoru
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-01-10 10:26:27 UTC
Milo Caman wrote:
Apparently no-one up top in the Amarr Empire takes religion seriously ,while the drug fuelled orgies aren’t nearly as bad as the graphic descriptions of Matari slaves licking Karsoth’s flabby nipples, they still turn prominent figures in the EVE universe into a complete joke.

And let’s not forget the whole of Amarr utterly ignoring the godflesh doctrine conveniently ignoring all that stuff about cloning being unholy and simply bowing down to their new psychic overlord.


Honestly, did you guys ever did some research about past theocracies? Ever heard the name Borgia? I think I'll just leave this here as an example.

As you can see, Tony's descriptions of Amarrian leaders aren't that far off from reality.
Milo Caman
Anshar Incorporated
#9 - 2012-01-10 10:58:46 UTC
resystol wrote:
I thoug this post was for the support of Tony G , so if dont like him as a writer then dont post here , I love both novels and think they are very good, and this my opinion which is no more important than the opinion of the other 2 guys who dont like the novels , so post only if you going to support if not, then there is plenty of room in general discussion for your opinions.

I support Tony G ,he develop the IP for 8 years , i mean cmon CCP.


As you said yourself, my opinion is just as relevant as yours, so if you want to spew this kind of thing all over the forums, I have every right to do the same. This is a discussion and I am disagreeing with the main point and backing up my argument.

Bolded the important bits.

Sakura Imoru wrote:
Honestly, did you guys ever did some research about past theocracies? Ever heard the name Borgia? I think I'll just leave this here as an example.

As you can see, Tony's descriptions of Amarrian leaders aren't that far off from reality.


Simply because bits of the book are grounded in very specific bits of history doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

As Silas said, I find it hard to believe that a civilization that has been enslaving and killing people in the name of their god, who now rule a huge empire across space have no people in their inner circle who take the religion seriously.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-01-10 11:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
"True Amarr – direct descendants of an ethnic group that conquered all the civilizations of its home world – are proud and supercilious, with a great sense of tradition and ancestry. They are considered arrogant and tyrannical by most others. In truth the Amarr social elite is soaked through with hypocrisy and only use religion as way to control the lower classes, through giving these an illusion of higher importance while exploiting them for personal gains (much like religion works in our world). The Amarr enjoy sexual deviancies unrivaled by even the Gallente and uses any opportunity to explore new perversities."

Now that is the description CCP should put on the character creation screen so people know what kind of personality they are signing up for. I mean, nobody cares about those minor RP details, right?

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#11 - 2012-01-10 13:00:41 UTC
Firstly, there is a line in Templar One that says there was a Terran station somewhere in New Eden that was constructed 14000 years before the closure of the EVE gate. What? The EVE Gate closed in the 8000s. He doesn't READ the established PF. Secondly, what Jowen, Milo and Silas have already said.

Thirdly, he makes such daft PF assumptions, like saying how all the Mannar died out on Seyllin I when this isn't even remotely true, since the Mannar come from Mannar, and they're one of the oldest and most prominent members of the Federation.

Fourthly, the portrayal of women in the novels can border on disgusting, as overemotional stroppy whores that are simply Not Fit to run an empire. The ex-CEO of KK, for example, pissing herself when bound to a chair in front of Tibus Heth, in an act of defiance. Right.

Fifthly, Jamyl Sarum is TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD according to the novel. The Fiction Portal written by Abraxas and co says she is 102. This makes far more sense as Emperors and Holders are destined to live for centuries, and age means a LOT in Amarr culture. What is the Amarr Empire? Some lumbering joke that puts emotionally weak, lesbian drug junkies in power? The Amarr Empire is the most powerful state in New Eden. They did not get to that position on luck alone.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-01-10 14:37:50 UTC
14000 years before the closure of the EVE Gate? That means it was build around 6000 B.C. People were very advanced back then.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-01-10 14:55:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Telegram Sam
Some votes for, some against, and the reasons why explained. Some pointing out of inconsistencies with the established canon. This is what we call intelligent discourse. Good to see it! Smile
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#14 - 2012-01-10 20:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Deviana Sevidon
Remember that some of the weirdest cultists in New Eden have their origins in the Amarr empire. Enemies of Mankind, Bloodraiders and without doubt a hundreds of other sects coming and going.

Imaging a lot of less then pieous activity going on seems quite likely. All of the empires pirate factions are like a reflection of each the empires darker sides. The bright side of the Gallente federation is it's liberty, the darker side is a ruthlessness when it comes to defending itself and drug abuse. Both are certainly traits of the Serpentis.

The more depraved of the Amarr are likely drawn rituals that are certainly not Theology Council approved mainstream faith.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
#15 - 2012-01-10 21:11:27 UTC
Tony is a somewhat decent story author, but a terrible tie-in writer. Now, for the vast majority of novelists this is not a problem, because they can make up their setting as they go along.

For Tony it's an absolute atrocity.

Not only was he IN CHARGE of keeping the integrity and consistency of the PF, but EVERY TIME he put words on paper it blatantly contradicted some preceding PF. He's the George W Bush of the EVE PF - in charge and not only unfit for the job but also too unaware of his own shortcomings to stop himself from doing anything.

I'm sure he's a lovely individual, but so are a lot of people who are terrible at their jobs. If they weren't pleasant to be around, people would catch on.
FeralShadow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-01-10 23:43:41 UTC
Didn't read, must run, but you're asking for examples from people near the top that take Amarrian religion seriously, what about Victor, the man who saves Falek in Empyrean Age? What about Falek Grange himself before he was almost assassinated? There were two powerful amarrians in high position who are exactly who you think they should be. Karsoth was a sort of antagonist in Empyrean Age, and his personality lent him to be so. He was a pig, and easily disliked.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Publius Valerius
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#17 - 2012-01-11 16:06:43 UTC
Why people are shoked? I mean in the Empyrean Age was it the same style.... Jamyl was some weird woman.... the Minmatar had some Elders... weird .... and so on.... And most of all, he already has in first Novel the archetyp plot... form GOOD Gallente (almost like a paradise, no unemployment etc...) and the evil Amarr etc....
The first ones hasnt a story which shows all the width of EVE, and if someone likes to have more width read the Burning Life.

I would love to have those classes ingame. See here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer

My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-01-11 16:11:46 UTC
i thought this was a joke about the tight end Tony Gonzales Lol

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread

Ando Ohmiras
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-01-11 17:09:57 UTC
First of all, the 14,000 number is probably an error in editing. Look at the timeline of EVE. Why? Simple; approximately 14,000-15,000 years ago in EVE time is when the EVE gate collapsed. With that being the case, it was probably meant to be something like "14,000 years ago, before the EVE gate collapsed." Yes, the number is a bit off; then again, no one in New Eden aside from maybe the Jove have that exact information. In this context, an estimated number and bad wording can easily be explained, don't you think? I also seriously doubt the editor at TOR was well versed in EVE lore, so an oversight like this (or rewording with limited information of the setting) would probably go unnoticed and unchecked.

Point being; before throwing those proverbial stones, perhaps we should give the benefit of the doubt, and look for alternative interpretations.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-01-11 17:51:07 UTC
Perhaps we can pull out a whole bag of similar PF disregards if you want us to.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

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