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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Real Tractor Beams

First post
Author
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-01-21 08:31:32 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Yeah i thought it was pretty self explanatory but a couple people didn't seem to understand concept.

As to why it is needed; i don't think that is relevant, it's just something I think would add to the game... why is a micro jump field, ecm or mobile tractor units needed? The answer is they are not, but they add something to the game all the same.


Why is 100% relevant. I don't think anyone has had trouble with the concept. Everything people are asking is WHY this is needed.

Again, what need/role does this fill? Why do you want it added?


You say you don't need things explains but continue to ask dumb questions... "Why do I want a tractor beam?" To tractor ship towards me of course! Straight "why do I want to pull ships towards me?" Do you play eve?! Big smile
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#22 - 2016-01-21 09:45:46 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Nah mate, bumping changes your direction/alignment. This theoretical tractor wouldn't, thus, you could still warp. Blink

If the current eve mechanics do not allow it, that's not my problem.


So tell me, would you activating a tractor beam on my ship not cause me to move towards you? That right there means that the tractor beam WOULD change the direction of my ship.

-1

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2016-01-21 10:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Hopelesshobo wrote:

So tell me, would you activating a tractor beam on my ship not cause me to move towards you? That right there means that the tractor beam WOULD change the direction of my ship.

-1

It would potentially change the vector of your ship and relative velocity, not the direction in which you are aligning.
Rek Seven wrote:

If the current eve mechanics do not allow it, that's not my problem.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#24 - 2016-01-21 11:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Rek Seven wrote:

It would potentially change the vector of your ship and relative velocity, not the direction in which you are aligning.

Please learn EVE mechanics before sounding dumb,
Your alignment in EVE is entirely represented by your velocity vector. There is no such thing as heading in EVE.

Also
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68671/1/Structuremodulecomposition.png
For proof Citadels are intended to get Tractor Beams.
Learn to read Dev blogs and watch fanfest video's before saying other people are wrong.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-01-21 12:30:28 UTC
Do I really need to repeat the fact that existing mechanics are not my problem moron? CCP obviously have the power to change the mechanics.

As I said, I want a ship based tractor, so whether the citadels have one is irrelevant... But since citadels will have them, that would indicate that a ship based tractor is possible.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-01-21 13:39:52 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Do I really need to repeat the fact that existing mechanics are not my problem moron? CCP obviously have the power to change the mechanics.

As I said, I want a ship based tractor, so whether the citadels have one is irrelevant... But since citadels will have them, that would indicate that a ship based tractor is possible.


You can't just say the current mechanic are not your problem when your proposed idea will play heavily with those mechanics. Trying to hand-wave mechanics so you can push you personal toy idea is wrong.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#27 - 2016-01-21 14:19:40 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
To repeat my self, a tractor beam pulls the target towards you and the equation to counteract the tractor would involve target mass (and maybe the tractor ships mass), target velocity and tractor strength/speed. If the result of the equation is a negative, you get pulled towards the ship, if it is positive, you can move away from the ship and if it's equal, you remain stationery

I fully understand the basic concept of your idea that is why I stated that it has some possibilities. Now I need more information on this "equation" so I can take your idea out of the fat kid and his dog basic concept and apply it to real EvE interactions between ships of various speeds and mass. Have you even thought that far through your idea, or is this just another I want because it is cool idea and someone else will have to figure out how to make it work things.

Rek Seven wrote:
It would potentially change the vector of your ship and relative velocity, not the direction in which you are aligning.

Alignment in EvE is the ability to attain 70% of your sub warp speed heading towards a defined place in space, place defined by where you told the game you want to warp to when you initiate your warp. Anything that can prevent you from attaining the required speed, or that can move your ship off of that original vector can and will prevent you from warping. Amazingly your tractor beam idea would have the ability to do either one and possibly even both of them at the same time and yet you think it would not prevent anyone from warping?
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-01-21 15:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Donnachadh wrote:

Amazingly your tractor beam idea would have the ability to do either one and possibly even both of them at the same time and yet you think it would not prevent anyone from warping?


Correct! Providing ccp design it that way Blink

In the same way slingshoting works with webs, your relativistic speed in space would be reduced and thus, providing the tractor did not change your alignment, it would be possible to get into warp faster.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#29 - 2016-01-21 15:08:12 UTC
Can I tractor a ship and use it as a slingshot device to escape tackle? Think frig vs frig where you slingshot to get away, can I use this alleged tractor and a change of direction to throw a tackling ship past me and get out of tackle range.

I think your idea would be much more interesting if you didn't limit it to large ships.

I can almost see this as a stealth BS suck thread.

I can see any implementation of this being a huge boost to turret tracking when used with a bit of skill.

What if you and I both tractor the same ship? I'm obviously cooler and smarter than you, so would my tractor be better?

What if 4 of my friends all agree to tractor you at the same time I do.... What happens?
What if 1000+ goon pets all tractor a guy at the same time (you know they will)... What happens then?
What if there are 200 ships on the field, 60 of them have tractors and they randomly tractor everyone and each other?

My personal take is that handing out a bunch of rubber bands to eve pilots and stepping back will on the one hand be hilarious, but on the other it would lead to a lot crap game play. 1 patch to put into the game and 4 years to balance out.


What if I destroyer jumped a ship tractoring or being tractored? Can I tractor a cyno ship off an undock? Can I MJD if I'm tractored? Does bastion stop a tractor beam? Siege? Does tractoring create an aggression timer?


Put some meat on this idea so we can sink our teeth into it.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-01-21 15:18:53 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:

What if you and I both tractor the same ship? I'm obviously cooler and smarter than you, so would my tractor be better?


LOL if you're tractor strength was stronger, yes, you would win the tug of war.

As to the "what if's", as you pointed out, the possibilities are endless until a qualified game designer designs the mechanic in a balanced way. Blink
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#31 - 2016-01-21 15:59:19 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
You say you don't need things explains but continue to ask dumb questions... "Why do I want a tractor beam?" To tractor ship towards me of course! Straight "why do I want to pull ships towards me?" Do you play eve?! Big smile


...do you play EVE? "LOL LOL, because I want to" has never been a good reason to change the mechanics in any game, ever. Give a well thought out reasoning behind why this is beneficial over the current mechanics and I will start to take you seriously.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2016-01-21 16:22:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Dude, I'm not here to convince anyone why they need to like my ideas. If you don't like the concept, that is fine, i can accept that... But if you do think it has some merit, then by all means, fill in the gaps that you think i've missed out.

I also don't see the point in explain why this is "needed" because anyone who knows the game should be able to figure out the potential advantages in having your target closer to you.
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#33 - 2016-01-21 16:32:10 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Dude, I'm not here to convince anyone why they need to like my ideas. If you don't like concept, that is fine i can accept that... But if you do think it has some merit, then by all means, fill in the gaps that you thing i've missed out.

I also don't see the point it explain why this is "needed" because anyone who knows the game, should be able to figure out the potential advantages in having your target closer to you.


I think it has zero merit, and don't understand why you're proposing it beyond "golly, this might be neat". You need a better line of reasoning than that.
Iain Cariaba
#34 - 2016-01-21 16:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Rek Seven wrote:
Dude, I'm not here to convince anyone why they need to like my ideas. If you don't like the concept, that is fine, i can accept that... But if you do think it has some merit, then by all means, fill in the gaps that you think i've missed out.

I also don't see the point in explain why this is "needed" because anyone who knows the game should be able to figure out the potential advantages in having your target closer to you.

You proposed the idea, the onus is on you to provide justification for said idea.

And no, "I think it'd be cool" or "wouldn't it be neat' is not valid justification.

Edit: And I know the game, I should after everything I've done in it in the last decade. I understand that range control is a valuable tool. Your idea, however, takes range control out of the hands of anyone not fitting this module. That is bad. If you dislike people kiting you that much, learn how to turn their orbits against them like any good PvPer.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#35 - 2016-01-21 17:04:50 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Dude, I'm not here to convince anyone why they need to like my ideas. If you don't like the concept, that is fine, i can accept that... But if you do think it has some merit, then by all means, fill in the gaps that you think i've missed out.

I also don't see the point in explain why this is "needed" because anyone who knows the game should be able to figure out the potential advantages in having your target closer to you.

You proposed the idea, the onus is on you to provide justification for said idea.

And no, "I think it'd be cool" or "wouldn't it be neat' is not valid justification.

Edit: And I know the game, I should after everything I've done in it in the last decade. I understand that range control is a valuable tool. Your idea, however, takes range control out of the hands of anyone not fitting this module. That is bad. If you dislike people kiting you that much, learn how to turn their orbits against them like any good PvPer.



Shots fired!

Could I interest the both of you in a thunderdome style discussion to settle your differences? (check C&P threads on the topic for anyone not familiar).

Historically Rek's idea posting has been a few eggs short of a dozen. He means well, you just have to work with him. Heck I'm not a detail gal myself. I personally love the various math nerds and perfectionist that hammer out the details. This idea just needs a bit of fleshing out to have a proper discussion. (respectful hugs to all the nerds that make this game totally awesome!)

Rek, the onus is on you to fill in the details during the discussion. You don't have to code it, but it's your idea, so you do have to own it during this phase.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2016-01-21 17:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Dude, I'm not here to convince anyone why they need to like my ideas. If you don't like the concept, that is fine, i can accept that... But if you do think it has some merit, then by all means, fill in the gaps that you think i've missed out.

I also don't see the point in explain why this is "needed" because anyone who knows the game should be able to figure out the potential advantages in having your target closer to you.

You proposed the idea, the onus is on you to provide justification for said idea.

And no, "I think it'd be cool" or "wouldn't it be neat' is not valid justification.

Edit: And I know the game, I should after everything I've done in it in the last decade. I understand that range control is a valuable tool. Your idea, however, takes range control out of the hands of anyone not fitting this module. That is bad. If you dislike people kiting you that much, learn how to turn their orbits against them like any good PvPer.


By that rationale you are against warp scramblers and pretty much everything in the game that can be countered.

Turn the clocks back a couple years...
Idea guy: "hey guys wouldn't it be cool if battleships could jump 100km away"
You: "No. Learn how to stay out of tackle range and use bounce BMs to snipe"

Small minds have often struggled with revolutionary idea, so don't feel too bad. Cool

Serendipity Lost wrote:

Rek, the onus is on you to fill in the details during the discussion. You don't have to code it, but it's your idea, so you do have to own it during this phase.


Fair enough, ask me anything you need to know, providing that it's not a detailed mechanics or balancing issue and is not already answered in the thread.

PS. many of my ideas have already been implemented xoxo
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#37 - 2016-01-21 18:10:06 UTC
I already asked you just under a dozen question.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2016-01-21 18:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
1. It's a batleship and capital only mod as stated in the first post
2. I think multiple tractors on the same target could work
3. You can't bump a cyno so logic would dictate that you can't tractor it
4. Theoretically tractoring bastion and siegeing ships would be possible.
5. Yes can use a MYJ while being tractored
6. Yes you can warp if not pointed
7. Stacking penalties could be applied to limit your fear of people having a "rubber band".
8. If implemented all the above could change to suit the designer.
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2016-01-22 04:25:05 UTC
This defiantly would add more cool to the game, comeon its a staple of sci fi, its olny in the first few of the first original star wars movie and knows how many others sci fi inspired by them.

And might not even need a new module if could just allow tractors to lock on to anything both wreaks and active ships, could have the pull be based on the mass of the ship using it, so a ship needs to be one size larger than the target to work, and larger size difference the better.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#40 - 2016-01-22 05:37:41 UTC
Sephiroth Clone VII wrote:
This defiantly would add more cool to the game, comeon its a staple of sci fi, its olny in the first few of the first original star wars movie and knows how many others sci fi inspired by them.

And might not even need a new module if could just allow tractors to lock on to anything both wreaks and active ships, could have the pull be based on the mass of the ship using it, so a ship needs to be one size larger than the target to work, and larger size difference the better.


If only it wouldn't remove piloting out of the game for reasons I don't get. You wanna go close to a boat, fly closer to the boat. Yes, it is that simple.
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