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Tibus Heth. Great Caldari Hero ? Or, Greatest Caldari Hero ?
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Natheniel
Kurupt.
Sedition.
#141 - 2016-01-19 23:27:41 UTC
And this is why Pieter Tuulinen must be destroyed

"Life is as a storm, one must be prepared for the hardship and scorn. But with in this is a light, one for which we must fight. For hope is our weapon and our dreams are our shield. When fully armed we can not be felled from the field."
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#142 - 2016-01-20 00:43:53 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


Instead of this, the matter was left open until the Federal Navy finally decided upon the feckless gamble that was Operation Highlander. Caldari Navy, Caldari capsuleers and independent contractors were forced to fight a phyrric battle of attrition against superior forces and it was only by the slimmest of margins that the surface of the planet was held.

This could all have been avoided, in my opinion, had the former-Executor not been so focused on getting a "win".


Operation Highlander? Feckless? I believe it was in fact the exact opposite. A gamble, certainly, but one that seized the initiative and required enormous strength of will from Gallente leaders and our armed forces alike to carry out. If things had turned out differently, Highlander's failure probably would have destroyed the Roden administration.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#143 - 2016-01-20 01:21:25 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


Instead of this, the matter was left open until the Federal Navy finally decided upon the feckless gamble that was Operation Highlander. Caldari Navy, Caldari capsuleers and independent contractors were forced to fight a phyrric battle of attrition against superior forces and it was only by the slimmest of margins that the surface of the planet was held.

This could all have been avoided, in my opinion, had the former-Executor not been so focused on getting a "win".


Operation Highlander? Feckless? I believe it was in fact the exact opposite. A gamble, certainly, but one that seized the initiative and required enormous strength of will from Gallente leaders and our armed forces alike to carry out. If things had turned out differently, Highlander's failure probably would have destroyed the Roden administration.

More like a provocation than a gamble.

Knowing gallente's lying tendencies and politics of double standards, if Leviathan would shoot on either Caldari Prime or Gallente Prime gallentes would blame Tibus Heth instead of Roden, despite that all lost lives would be because of Roden's actions.

Well, anyway, some idiots still blame Tibus Heth even if Leviathan didn't do a single shot to any of planets.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#144 - 2016-01-20 01:24:55 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
I don't prescribe to your particular brand of warriors code or whatever it is you base this on, so two final words I guess from me to you:
Bite me.

Filthy tribal! I am a Caldari Officer, not a cannibal!
And I don't fight on teeth, only in ships, on firearms, cold weapons or unarmed.

Besides, I have already delt with minmatars and they have shown themselves to me to be honorless pity creatures, that's why I often look at them from above. Well, thanks for proving my point of view on minmatars once again.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#145 - 2016-01-20 06:47:53 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


Instead of this, the matter was left open until the Federal Navy finally decided upon the feckless gamble that was Operation Highlander. Caldari Navy, Caldari capsuleers and independent contractors were forced to fight a phyrric battle of attrition against superior forces and it was only by the slimmest of margins that the surface of the planet was held.

This could all have been avoided, in my opinion, had the former-Executor not been so focused on getting a "win".


Operation Highlander? Feckless? I believe it was in fact the exact opposite. A gamble, certainly, but one that seized the initiative and required enormous strength of will from Gallente leaders and our armed forces alike to carry out. If things had turned out differently, Highlander's failure probably would have destroyed the Roden administration.


It was an enormous gamble that wound up inflicting enormous harm on the planet below and on the fleets of all involved. Moreover it relied on either Heth to be bluffing or on his hand picked Admiral to disobey a direct order. Do you think Yanala was working with the FIO?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#146 - 2016-01-20 07:21:43 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
One wrong doesn't make a right, either.


And I don't believe I claimed it did.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#147 - 2016-01-20 08:34:37 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

It was an enormous gamble that wound up inflicting enormous harm on the planet below and on the fleets of all involved. Moreover it relied on either Heth to be bluffing or on his hand picked Admiral to disobey a direct order. Do you think Yanala was working with the FIO?

Despite I would never accept Adm. Yanala's actions during the battle and would immediately dismiss her from the duty myself if I would be her superior, we must not forget that she had taken the tea and thus has cleared her name and honor. We must respect her as honorable soldier of the State and shouldn't spread such rumors about her.

After all, one working for such lesser race as gallentes wouldn't have courage and honor to take the tea. She was Caldari. And she died as Caldari.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#148 - 2016-01-20 09:23:55 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


Instead of this, the matter was left open until the Federal Navy finally decided upon the feckless gamble that was Operation Highlander. Caldari Navy, Caldari capsuleers and independent contractors were forced to fight a phyrric battle of attrition against superior forces and it was only by the slimmest of margins that the surface of the planet was held.

This could all have been avoided, in my opinion, had the former-Executor not been so focused on getting a "win".


Operation Highlander? Feckless? I believe it was in fact the exact opposite. A gamble, certainly, but one that seized the initiative and required enormous strength of will from Gallente leaders and our armed forces alike to carry out. If things had turned out differently, Highlander's failure probably would have destroyed the Roden administration.


It was an enormous gamble that wound up inflicting enormous harm on the planet below and on the fleets of all involved. Moreover it relied on either Heth to be bluffing or on his hand picked Admiral to disobey a direct order. Do you think Yanala was working with the FIO?


All of that could be true, but it wouldn't make Operation Highlander "feckless." Flawed, sure. Despite its success, it is important to acknowledge the risks if it had failed.

That doesn't change the boldness of the action taken. Operation Highlander is an example of a nation seizing the initiative during dire circumstances, for good or ill. Hardly the kind of weak willed capitulation to pressure that fecklessness implies.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#149 - 2016-01-20 16:27:04 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

It was an enormous gamble that wound up inflicting enormous harm on the planet below and on the fleets of all involved. Moreover it relied on either Heth to be bluffing or on his hand picked Admiral to disobey a direct order. Do you think Yanala was working with the FIO?

Despite I would never accept Adm. Yanala's actions during the battle and would immediately dismiss her from the duty myself if I would be her superior, we must not forget that she had taken the tea and thus has cleared her name and honor. We must respect her as honorable soldier of the State and shouldn't spread such rumors about her.

After all, one working for such lesser race as gallentes wouldn't have courage and honor to take the tea. She was Caldari. And she died as Caldari.

He wasn't spreading rumors, it was more like a rhetorical question.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#150 - 2016-01-20 19:39:41 UTC
I have avoided this discussion for obvious reasons, but I warn my fellow Federalists… there is no profit in your efforts.

They do not have ears to hear and use even peace as a weapon.

You see the Caldari have elevated victimhood to spiritual dimension.

So let them wallow in it, all the while losing their prize one acquisition at a time.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#151 - 2016-01-20 20:04:51 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
I have avoided this discussion for obvious reasons, but I warn my fellow Federalists… there is no profit in your efforts.

They do not have ears to hear and use even peace as a weapon.

You see the Caldari have elevated victimhood to spiritual dimension.

So let them wallow in it, all the while losing their prize one acquisition at a time.

Nope.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#152 - 2016-01-20 21:27:03 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


Instead of this, the matter was left open until the Federal Navy finally decided upon the feckless gamble that was Operation Highlander. Caldari Navy, Caldari capsuleers and independent contractors were forced to fight a phyrric battle of attrition against superior forces and it was only by the slimmest of margins that the surface of the planet was held.

This could all have been avoided, in my opinion, had the former-Executor not been so focused on getting a "win".


Operation Highlander? Feckless? I believe it was in fact the exact opposite. A gamble, certainly, but one that seized the initiative and required enormous strength of will from Gallente leaders and our armed forces alike to carry out. If things had turned out differently, Highlander's failure probably would have destroyed the Roden administration.


It was an enormous gamble that wound up inflicting enormous harm on the planet below and on the fleets of all involved. Moreover it relied on either Heth to be bluffing or on his hand picked Admiral to disobey a direct order. Do you think Yanala was working with the FIO?


All of that could be true, but it wouldn't make Operation Highlander "feckless." Flawed, sure. Despite its success, it is important to acknowledge the risks if it had failed.

That doesn't change the boldness of the action taken. Operation Highlander is an example of a nation seizing the initiative during dire circumstances, for good or ill. Hardly the kind of weak willed capitulation to pressure that fecklessness implies.


Ah, I meant more in the sense of irresponsible than weak. I''ll grant you that it did seize the controls of the speeder - even if it drove said speeder into a lake.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#153 - 2016-01-20 22:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: TomHorn
James Syagrius wrote:
I have avoided this discussion for obvious reasons, but I warn my fellow Federalists… there is no profit in your efforts.

They do not have ears to hear and use even peace as a weapon.

You see the Caldari have elevated victimhood to spiritual dimension.

So let them wallow in it, all the while losing their prize one acquisition at a time.


We have ears Mr Syagrius , we hear you well enough. As for victimhood and wallowing in it , i do not see any of that going on. It is not the Caldari way. We fight for what we believe in , Heth has set us on the way , now we must finish the job. We will not stop until we get what we want.

First Gallente-Caldari war lasted nearly 100 years. This war maybe it will last 1000 years , in another 50 years maybe we will be at the end of the begining. In another 200 or 300 years we will realize , Strike Commander Kim was enlightened , when she believed the only way to end this war , is for us to wipe the Gallente off the face of New Eden or you us. The so called crimes of Heth will be nothing compared to those that will follow him.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#154 - 2016-01-21 05:05:17 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:


Is Tibus Heth a great hero of the State ? Or the greatest hero of the State ?



Both

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#155 - 2016-01-21 17:34:22 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
I have avoided this discussion for obvious reasons, but I warn my fellow Federalists… there is no profit in your efforts.

They do not have ears to hear and use even peace as a weapon.

You see the Caldari have elevated victimhood to spiritual dimension.

So let them wallow in it, all the while losing their prize one acquisition at a time.


We'll keep mentioning it so long as you guys don't stop doing it. You stop, we stop.

It's all pretty simple stuff.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#156 - 2016-01-21 18:47:54 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
we will realize , Strike Commander Kim was enlightened , when she believed the only way to end this war , is for us to wipe the Gallente off the face of New Eden or you us. The so called crimes of Heth will be nothing compared to those that will follow him.

You're not supposed to admit to war crimes before you commit them.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Tamiroth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#157 - 2016-01-21 19:07:57 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Is Tibus Heth a great hero of the State ? Or the greatest hero of the State ?


Tibus Heth was an internal matter of the Caldari State.

His leadership was... questioned, by many, but then, again, every human political entity had its share of questionable leaders in the past.

Let's leave this to the Caldari. They are civilized people, they will deal with the aftermath of Heth's reign, and the State will prosper. Or so I hope.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#158 - 2016-01-22 01:15:33 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
The so called crimes of Heth will be nothing compared to those that will follow him.

I could not have said it better myself... I hope those within our Federal Union who desire peace at all costs, take you at your word Sir.

It is good then that we agree.

There will be no peace, until someone wins.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#159 - 2016-01-22 01:24:44 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
I have avoided this discussion for obvious reasons, but I warn my fellow Federalists… there is no profit in your efforts.

They do not have ears to hear and use even peace as a weapon.

You see the Caldari have elevated victimhood to spiritual dimension.

So let them wallow in it, all the while losing their prize one acquisition at a time.


We'll keep mentioning it so long as you guys don't stop doing it. You stop, we stop.

It's all pretty simple stuff.

Oh Pieter my old… friend, but that’s the point. You don’t.

The fact you occupy parts of Caldari Prime today proves the point.

Declaring the superiority of your cause is delusion.


“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#160 - 2016-01-22 10:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Utari Onzo
James Syagrius wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
I have avoided this discussion for obvious reasons, but I warn my fellow Federalists… there is no profit in your efforts.

They do not have ears to hear and use even peace as a weapon.

You see the Caldari have elevated victimhood to spiritual dimension.

So let them wallow in it, all the while losing their prize one acquisition at a time.


We'll keep mentioning it so long as you guys don't stop doing it. You stop, we stop.

It's all pretty simple stuff.

Oh Pieter my old… friend, but that’s the point. You don’t.

The fact you occupy parts of Caldari Prime today proves the point.

Declaring the superiority of your cause is delusion.




Generally, I try to stay out of Caldari business here on the IGS. But when it comes to Caldari Prime, I just can't hold my tongue.

Mr Syagrius, your people have never experianced having your home occupied. It is a profound, and heavy burden on the soul that even I, as an Amarrian, can feel and sympathise with. I have Civire heritage, and my father died on that damned planet, caught up in what is a mess. A big, huge mess of a scar.

Mr Syagrius, you point to the fact the Caldari occupy parts of Caldari Prime as if that's a positive. The fact you fail to mention there's still enforced Gallente areas of control deftly misses the point when the Caldari speak of reclaiming Home. They don't want some of it, they don't want to be given little scraps as rewards for 'good behaviour' in the eyes of the Federation, they want all of it back, and they successfully did just that with military force not that long ago. If I recall, they got Caldari Prime and declined to push further, so in a sense Mr Tuulinen's comment of stopping when you stop is demonstrated no?

Mr Syagrius, there are many issues between the Caldari and the Gallente I am not qualified to address, but to see the issue of Caldari Prime bushed off as if it's a positive situation in favour of the Caldari feels insulting to me. The question is still unanswered about its future, negotiations continue, and the residents of the planet (regardless of ethnicity and citizenship) and the people of The State continue to have to endure a kind of 'stasis' held in check only by a Private Military Company and a general lack of political progress.

Forgive me Mr Tuulinen, but I just couldn't hold my silence on this one.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"