These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Incursions suck for rookies
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-01-12 00:57:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
What the op is describing is a mistake on CCP's part. The idea was that incursions would be so intrusive that 'locals' would join together to push them out. They didn't understand that by making them "farmable", incursions would spawn dedicated communites that would more or less keep them running for as long as possible, and screw how bad this can be for the "locals".

So the small numbers of incursion runners (1.5% of players on any given day) enrich themselves for as long as possible, and locals like the OP are forced to deal with unfun inconveniences.

A better thing might have been for Incursions to lower mining yield and rat bounties and things like that (so that they still have some impact on the space they are in), but not totally take over all other activities like they do now.
Farming isn't really part of this issue, it's inactivity on the part of the locals. Even if you took the communities out of the equation, all you'd have left would be untouched incursions.

The reason incursions aren't cleared the day they spawn is due to those who have the most interest in clearing them simply don't do so. Reducing penalties and system effects may well keep the space usable for non-runners, but won't do anything to farming. Increasing penalties to tank and DPS through the course of the incursion might if they got severe enough.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2016-01-12 01:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
What the op is describing is a mistake on CCP's part. The idea was that incursions would be so intrusive that 'locals' would join together to push them out. They didn't understand that by making them "farmable", incursions would spawn dedicated communites that would more or less keep them running for as long as possible, and screw how bad this can be for the "locals".

So the small numbers of incursion runners (1.5% of players on any given day) enrich themselves for as long as possible, and locals like the OP are forced to deal with unfun inconveniences.

A better thing might have been for Incursions to lower mining yield and rat bounties and things like that (so that they still have some impact on the space they are in), but not totally take over all other activities like they do now.
Farming isn't really part of this issue, it's inactivity on the part of the locals. Even if you took the communities out of the equation, all you'd have left would be untouched incursions.

The reason incursions aren't cleared the day they spawn is due to those who have the most interest in clearing them simply don't do so. Reducing penalties and system effects may well keep the space usable for non-runners, but won't do anything to farming. Increasing penalties to tank and DPS through the course of the incursion might if they got severe enough.


In theory the mining division of your corp alliance biatch to the PvE mission/ratting corpies who then go and clear the incursion.

Sometimes actually happens that way in null. Never happens like that in hisec as far as I know.

EDIT: I suppose there is always the option of paying an incursion community to clear the incursion but you would need to offer an awful lot of ISK
Dante Burke
Practical Applications
#23 - 2016-01-12 02:35:46 UTC
If your corp likes the space it's in, and you've already plans in motion, then I'd use this situation to the betterment of your corp.

There are a lot of pilots who enjoy the PVE aspects of EVE in many shapes and fashions. PVE combat pilots offers a corp, especially one that may be smaller, more opportunities (especially if they're an industrial corp). Not only would bounties collected help with the corp wallet, but if you have pilots capable of running L4s, there's salvage (both loot drops, and the salvage material itself), that can be refined, and used to build.

That being said, six jumps in EVE is nothing. If there's no interest in seeing about some combat PVE pilots, then I would pick the closest area of space to mine what you want, and do so. Dump it off at that temporary home until the Incursion is over, and then swallow the bitter pill of people using whatever hauling ships they have, to to bring it back to your home station.

Yes, these things do suck, and are an inconvenience, but that's how it often goes sometimes.

I solo warped into Asakai, and all I got was this stupid t-shirt. - Dante Burke
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2016-01-12 03:18:51 UTC
Dante Burke wrote:


That being said, six jumps in EVE is nothing. If there's no interest in seeing about some combat PVE pilots, then I would pick the closest area of space to mine what you want, and do so. Dump it off at that temporary home until the Incursion is over, and then swallow the bitter pill of people using whatever hauling ships they have, to to bring it back to your home station.

Yes, these things do suck, and are an inconvenience, but that's how it often goes sometimes.


Also, assuming you are in highsec, Red Frog will only charge about 12 mill to bring 800,000 m3 of ore 6 jumps home.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#25 - 2016-01-12 07:02:00 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:


Yes, these things do suck, and are an inconvenience, but that's how it often goes sometimes.


Also, assuming you are in highsec, Red Frog will only charge about 12 mill to bring 800,000 m3 of ore 6 jumps home.[/quote]

You could also use public contracts, might take a bit longer to fill but i ahve moved stuff for as little as 1mil per jump.

Either that or refine the ore and just get the minerals shipped to a trade hub and flog them off.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#26 - 2016-01-12 15:32:48 UTC
Kithran wrote:
1) The OP is talking about a minor infestation which is a drifter incursion - these are not being tackled in any sort of large numbers by players so it is not the case that one group of players are forcing the consequences on another.

Wondering why you thought the OP was talking about Drifters.
Drifters do not impose constellation wide affects.
Drifters do not replace the standard rats found in the EvE universe.
Drifters do not congregate in ore belts and attack player ships.
Drifters only attack player ships if you shoot at them, or venture into the Drifters space.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Drifters

Kithran wrote:
2) Sansha incursions already lower rat bounties.

And every time I go out I get more ISK and LP for killing Incursion rats than I do for killing the standard rat crap so not sure if I am lucky or you have no idea what you are talking about.

Kithran wrote:
3) There are often not enough people locally to kill an incursion so without the dedicated incursion runners the incursion would actually last longer and have a bigger impact (once an incursion is being "farmed" influence will quickly go to zero meaning things like reduction in ship resistances and damage dealt are removed, incursions will not end by simply timing out if one or more groups are running incursions for rewards).

ALL Incursions have a pre-programmed life cycle and they will end no matter what the players do.
As far as them lasting longer if there are no players involved that depends entirely on the Incursion runners. When they are in one of their little spats with each other an Incursion can go down in as little as 2 to 3 days. On the other hand if they are farming for max ISK / LP then they will run them to the end of the pre-programmed life cycle any way so there is no difference.


To the OP.
It is your choice to not play for the duration but that is rather short sighted there are many things you can do.

To be honest 6 jumps is an easy move when you use the right ships, the Orca is always a good choice but there are other options as well.
The Miasmos for raw ore.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Miasmos

The Kyros for refined minerals.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Kryos

If you are concerned about ganking and losing your stuff then a Deep Space Transport or the Blockade Runners are good options.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Category:Transport_Ships

Use the time to explore around the EvE universe and go visit places you have never been.
If you have not done them, go run all the tutorial missions so you have a look at what else there is to do.
Go run the Epic acr missions for standings and stuff.
And the list goes on.
However if you choose to sit it out then you really only have yourself to blame.
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#27 - 2016-01-12 15:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Leila Meurtrier
Donnachadh wrote:

And every time I go out I get more ISK and LP for killing Incursion rats than I do for killing the standard rat crap.

Except Sansha incursion belt rats offer no loot, no bounty and no salvage. And whole thread is not about how unprofitable incursions are, it's about penalties to every non-incursionist in the area which also includes rat swap for ore belts/anoms, gas sites, random spawns near gates and stations.
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#28 - 2016-01-13 00:40:06 UTC
Why not just join an incursion fleet ?? There are those who will accept new players and even lend you a ship. Can't remember them off hand, but drop me a mail and when I log on I'll send the details.
Kithran
#29 - 2016-01-13 12:31:56 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Kithran wrote:
1) The OP is talking about a minor infestation which is a drifter incursion - these are not being tackled in any sort of large numbers by players so it is not the case that one group of players are forcing the consequences on another.

Wondering why you thought the OP was talking about Drifters.
Drifters do not impose constellation wide affects.
Drifters do not replace the standard rats found in the EvE universe.
Drifters do not congregate in ore belts and attack player ships.
Drifters only attack player ships if you shoot at them, or venture into the Drifters space.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Drifters


If you were in a system with a Drifter incursion you would see it is described as something like 'Medium Infestation' in the same way you have Vanguard, Headquarters, Assault etc for Sansha incursions - that will be why I thought that.

Drifter incursions do impose system wide affects etc.

You may see drifters in systems that are not being affected by a drifter incursion, that doesn't mean there aren't differences.

Donnachadh wrote:

And every time I go out I get more ISK and LP for killing Incursion rats than I do for killing the standard rat crap so not sure if I am lucky or you have no idea what you are talking about.


Actually you have no idea what you are talking about. Have a look at the penalties when you are in a system with a sansha incursion - one of them is a 50% reduction to bounties paid by Concord. This can easily be tested by doing a mission in an incursion system and seeing how much you get for rats killed in that mission compared to doing that mission in a normal system.

Donnachadh wrote:
Kithran wrote:
3) There are often not enough people locally to kill an incursion so without the dedicated incursion runners the incursion would actually last longer and have a bigger impact (once an incursion is being "farmed" influence will quickly go to zero meaning things like reduction in ship resistances and damage dealt are removed, incursions will not end by simply timing out if one or more groups are running incursions for rewards).

ALL Incursions have a pre-programmed life cycle and they will end no matter what the players do.
As far as them lasting longer if there are no players involved that depends entirely on the Incursion runners. When they are in one of their little spats with each other an Incursion can go down in as little as 2 to 3 days. On the other hand if they are farming for max ISK / LP then they will run them to the end of the pre-programmed life cycle any way so there is no difference.


Please read what I posted - I know full well that incursions are a life cycle and will end without player intervention. My point was _without_ the dedicated incursion runners there will not be enough people completing incursion sites for the incursion to end any earlier. If there are dedicated incursion runners the incursion will finish prematurely because otherwise the incursion runners will not get their LP.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#30 - 2016-01-13 14:35:59 UTC
Kithran wrote:
If you were in a system with a Drifter incursion you would see it is described as something like 'Medium Infestation' in the same way you have Vanguard, Headquarters, Assault etc for Sansha incursions - that will be why I thought that.

Drifter incursions do impose system wide affects etc.

You may see drifters in systems that are not being affected by a drifter incursion, that doesn't mean there aren't differences.

Link please because there is nothing I can find that gives any information on these supposed system wide affects from a drifter incursion.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#31 - 2016-01-13 15:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Estella Osoka
Donnachadh wrote:
Kithran wrote:
If you were in a system with a Drifter incursion you would see it is described as something like 'Medium Infestation' in the same way you have Vanguard, Headquarters, Assault etc for Sansha incursions - that will be why I thought that.

Drifter incursions do impose system wide affects etc.

You may see drifters in systems that are not being affected by a drifter incursion, that doesn't mean there aren't differences.

Link please because there is nothing I can find that gives any information on these supposed system wide affects from a drifter incursion.


Dude, just login into the game and fly over to a Drifter incursion. The system-wide effects are displayed.

EDIT: Of course you are prolly too lazy to do so, and your google-fu must suck. So here's a link to an article on them: http://crossingzebras.com/drifter-update-incursions/

What you want is about halfway down the page.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#32 - 2016-01-14 19:55:47 UTC
6j is nothing really - yes it's awkward if you want to do it every single game session, but just setup a temporary HQ in the new spot and then move back a week later (and use hauler contracts to get all your produce moved back)...

Then use some available data such as: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Constellation_layouts_for_Incursions and you can work out whether it's profitable or not for you to setup multiple mining 'hubs' in the locality in case you end up with two or even three(!) concurrent incursion focuses in the vicinity of your home system (although getting all three highsec spawns in adjacent constellations is incredibly improbable and would also lead to incursioners popping one of the focuses to keep the farming periods staggered).

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#33 - 2016-01-14 21:23:51 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Kithran wrote:
If you were in a system with a Drifter incursion you would see it is described as something like 'Medium Infestation' in the same way you have Vanguard, Headquarters, Assault etc for Sansha incursions - that will be why I thought that.

Drifter incursions do impose system wide affects etc.

You may see drifters in systems that are not being affected by a drifter incursion, that doesn't mean there aren't differences.

Link please because there is nothing I can find that gives any information on these supposed system wide affects from a drifter incursion.



Go in game, and you'll see the effects. They are system wide.



Get your assertions straight - or at least mention that you're not sure - or don't post falsehoods at all. It's that simple.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#34 - 2016-01-17 08:09:29 UTC
i want to try this incursion thing, so i came here to research and the 1st thing i see in this section is this dmbfck thread. lazy people are lazy...

Just Add Water
Thord Makanen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#35 - 2016-01-18 20:05:53 UTC
I try not to rant a lot. Waited patiently, mined rarely and the incursion was over. And guess what? Another incursion today. Only 2 days without incursion in my system. At least there is one uninfested system just a jump away.

Still, overpowering and over saturating the game with so many incursions, so often is plain dumb to me and is testing my patience again.

Otherwise, I like the game and it would be a shame, if I drop it (still in PayPal refund period), because of such nuisance, that is spoiling it.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#36 - 2016-01-19 05:03:40 UTC
Thord Makanen wrote:
I try not to rant a lot. Waited patiently, mined rarely and the incursion was over. And guess what? Another incursion today. Only 2 days without incursion in my system. At least there is one uninfested system just a jump away.

Still, overpowering and over saturating the game with so many incursions, so often is plain dumb to me and is testing my patience again.

Otherwise, I like the game and it would be a shame, if I drop it (still in PayPal refund period), because of such nuisance, that is spoiling it.


and nothing of value will be lost. Big smile

Just Add Water
Ravien Darkstarr
New Eden Film Society
#37 - 2016-01-20 01:24:09 UTC
Thord Makanen wrote:
I try not to rant a lot. Waited patiently, mined rarely and the incursion was over. And guess what? Another incursion today. Only 2 days without incursion in my system. At least there is one uninfested system just a jump away.

Still, overpowering and over saturating the game with so many incursions, so often is plain dumb to me and is testing my patience again.

Otherwise, I like the game and it would be a shame, if I drop it (still in PayPal refund period), because of such nuisance, that is spoiling it.


It's bad luck. I've never had an incursion in my home system.

Depending on what you're mining, you could always sell the ore in place, and then rebuy the ore or minerals at your HQ. Or set up a courier contract. Sure you might lose out on a little profit, but EVE Online is not a stagnant game.
Of course people have brought up some valid criticisms of the way incursions work, but until (if) they get changed, you have options at your disposal. Your corp should be able to help you figure out what to do in the meantime.

I wish you luck!

Casual maker of EVE Online (and other) game videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1cYAJAR3TRG4A9MtXfgXIA
Mandor M Sawall
Whiskey Tango Zulu
#38 - 2016-01-20 09:34:09 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
The issue is Incusrion runners farming these for days instead of actually taking out the mothership site at the earliest convenience; which can be done in less than 12 hours. They don't give a crap about the little man, and I could really care less either if you don't want to do something to discourage them except whine on the forums.

Incursioners pissing you off because they want to farm the incursion for 5 days +? Contact CODE and learn to suicide gank them.


Incursions are chalenging. You have to get about 60 battleships with good enough tank and enough DPS to end the incursion. And then you get 63 million ISK and jump 15-25 jumps tipically to the next incursion. And you bring more than one ship to the incursion. And it is not that strange to lose a 1-3 billion worth ship. You have to farm the incursion to get to that kind of ships in the first place. If we don't farm, we spend 95% of time jumping and waiting for enough people to join fleet.
Mandor M Sawall
Whiskey Tango Zulu
#39 - 2016-01-20 09:37:06 UTC
Thord Makanen wrote:
I try not to rant a lot. Waited patiently, mined rarely and the incursion was over. And guess what? Another incursion today. Only 2 days without incursion in my system. At least there is one uninfested system just a jump away.

Still, overpowering and over saturating the game with so many incursions, so often is plain dumb to me and is testing my patience again.

Otherwise, I like the game and it would be a shame, if I drop it (still in PayPal refund period), because of such nuisance, that is spoiling it.


Use this time to dive into wormholes, check out missions, take a shot at someone in lowsec, do the sisters of eve epic arc... there is so much more to do in eve.
Previous page12