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Regulate Plex Trade!

Author
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#41 - 2016-01-11 23:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Rek Seven wrote:
PLEXing your account used to be a goal attainable by anyone. It kept the player count up and increased active in space... Now it is just for the super rich, incursion runners or the pay to win crowd to enjoy Sad


The "pay to win" crowd? You mean the people who are buying plex with cash and selling them for ISK?

That... doesn't make sense. They're not only likely paying for their accounts with cash (in the US, at least, a regular sub is cheaper than a plex, so it doesn't make much sense otherwise), they're also paying additional for PLEX to sell, so how, precisely, do they fall among the group of people who are likely to PLEX their account? Ugh

If there's a problem with PLEX it's that they have apparently given people the false belief that they have some sort of right to play for "free".

Every subscription needs to be paid for by someone. If you can't afford the IG scratch to get someone else to pay for your subscription, that's not CCP's problem to fix.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2016-01-11 23:40:34 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
OMG....

Look, the thing you are missing is that people have budget constraints in real life. That is, suppose a player needs 1.2 billion ISK, back when PLEX were 300 million a player would have to drop $80. Now, he drops $20. In which situation would people be more willing to buy 1.2 billion worth of ISK? Many people would consider $80 too much, but $20...okay.

In other words, the higher price in game translates into increased demand in the out of game market. Roll


This...I am that person. My new project needs a few hundred million isk more than I have. Given I can easily make $20 in an hour IRL, I literally just bought a plex for cash and sold it to get the ISK. If I had to spend $80 to get it though, I would have resigned myself to a few days of grinding missions and saved my money IRL


PLEX....working as intended...redistributing ISK from those who have more than they need to those who don't, and everyone is satisfied and better off.

Markets...they are awesome. Big smile

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2016-01-11 23:43:00 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
PLEXing your account used to be a goal attainable by anyone. It kept the player count up and increased active in space... Now it is just for the super rich, incursion runners or the pay to win crowd to enjoy Sad


I find this to be a completely unconvincing argument. If you can get your monthly account costs down to $11-12/month and you have to spend more than an hour grinding for a PLEX and you make more than $20/hour you are doing it wrong if you are grinding....unless you really love grinding.

Perhaps you should go read up on the concept of opportunity cost. It appears the meaning of the concept has eluded you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#44 - 2016-01-19 22:38:00 UTC
Let's end vicious cycle of plex price .....
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#45 - 2016-01-19 23:35:58 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Let's end vicious cycle of plex price .....


You do understand that, when your argument has been thoroughly and systematically disassembled by pretty much everyone else in the thread, merely repeating yourself like you're a cheerleader spelling out "VICTORY" at a JV sporting event isn't exactly compelling stuff, right?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Iain Cariaba
#46 - 2016-01-20 00:03:56 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
PLEXing your account used to be a goal attainable by anyone. It kept the player count up and increased active in space... Now it is just for the super rich, incursion runners or the pay to win crowd to enjoy Sad

It still is a goal attainable by anyone. I can earn enough in a week running highsec anoms/escalations to PLEX my account. I taught my neighbor how when he first signed up, and he made a billion isk by time his character was 10 days old.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#47 - 2016-01-20 00:16:04 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
Let's end vicious cycle of plex price .....


No.

Certainly not just because your entitled ass thinks the free market that is the basic ******* foundation of this game should go away.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#48 - 2016-01-20 01:29:37 UTC
OP has an interesting idea..... I think it might be worth looking more seriously at if it's doable.....

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Professor Humbert
Project Fruit House
#49 - 2016-01-20 04:37:05 UTC
As a trader, I don't care how much Dollar or Euro whatever someone spends on PLEX to sell ingame for whatever the amount of ISK that he/she wants to get.
As long as there are people selling straight to buy orders and people buying straight from sell orders, no matter whatever item, it will be traded.

Even If the number of transactions that can be made per PLEX becomes limited as OP proposes, traders are not gonna release their stock in a hurry.
Such measure effectively removes the top 99% of the buy orders while traders sitting on pile of PLEX's will just adjust their sell interval and quantity.

An extreme end result will look like

Top buy price : 1 ISK
Lowest sell price : 1,000,000,000 ISK

Iain Cariaba
#50 - 2016-01-20 05:04:10 UTC
Professor Humbert wrote:
As a trader, I don't care how much Dollar or Euro whatever someone spends on PLEX to sell ingame for whatever the amount of ISK that he/she wants to get.
As long as there are people selling straight to buy orders and people buying straight from sell orders, no matter whatever item, it will be traded.

Even If the number of transactions that can be made per PLEX becomes limited as OP proposes, traders are not gonna release their stock in a hurry.
Such measure effectively removes the top 99% of the buy orders while traders sitting on pile of PLEX's will just adjust their sell interval and quantity.

An extreme end result will look like

Top buy price : 1 ISK
Lowest sell price : 1,000,000,000 ISK

Pretty much. This is something anyone with a functional understanding of basic economics can understand. Unfortunately, all OP and supporters can see is that they can't easily play EvE for free.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#51 - 2016-01-21 11:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Professor Humbert wrote:
As a trader, I don't care how much Dollar or Euro whatever someone spends on PLEX to sell ingame for whatever the amount of ISK that he/she wants to get.
As long as there are people selling straight to buy orders and people buying straight from sell orders, no matter whatever item, it will be traded.

Even If the number of transactions that can be made per PLEX becomes limited as OP proposes, traders are not gonna release their stock in a hurry.
Such measure effectively removes the top 99% of the buy orders while traders sitting on pile of PLEX's will just adjust their sell interval and quantity.

An extreme end result will look like

Top buy price : 1 ISK
Lowest sell price : 1,000,000,000 ISK

Pretty much. This is something anyone with a functional understanding of basic economics can understand. Unfortunately, all OP and supporters can see is that they can't easily play EvE for free.



It's not something i don't understand ..... Well let me elaborate because you seem not to comprehend the problem.


There are communities Like polish that are forced to pay in EUR, extending account cost 15 Euro. But we don't make euro in poland, we make złoty. 1 Euro is 4,50 zł. witch means i have to pay about 70zł for game time. and plex is 20 euro with is 90 zł.

Common polish person makes about 1200 zł per month.


So from that you can understand no sane person would buy it. i can buy groceries for a week for 15 euro in poland ....

CCP does not give two shi** about some pleayer communities because we are not making half of the player base.


Now you end up with thousands of players who either play for free, or buy PLEX from RMT cartel for less than half the price off allegro.pl ...


So with the current mechanics there is no way price will fall, plex cost more people buy less beacuse they get more isk, traders hoard the stock and adjust allways making the profit beacuse there is no other source for the plex, you can't get it from the game enviroment.

We end up with is few Traders that never undock control and kill player base that CCP don't care about.

Making the plex trade hands only once is one good way to at least try to solve the problem. There will be no sence to hoard it because you can't resell it on market. dramaticly increasing ammount of it on the market, supply-demand thing bla bla.

you know the rest ....
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#52 - 2016-01-21 12:29:22 UTC
Would you pay 70 euro or 70 dolars for monthly subscription? hell no


it's only natural that we try to play for free or RMT when i have to pay 5x more for subscription than the rest.


It's obvious that i want to regulate plex trade to keep the price were is should be, so my community can keep existing!


And all those just pay 15 euro and shut up look like hillbilly comnets.

If i could pay 15 zł insted of 15 euro i would eat my own shoe and just pay for my accounts, but i have to pay 5x more for subscription.


i play eve for 8 years now, since i was 14 years old. I love this game and all i want is just to have possibility to keep playing it.


I don't understand how you people fail to understand that.
Iain Cariaba
#53 - 2016-01-21 12:58:32 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
stuff...

Not to sound overly crass, but a video game is considered a luxury. You are not entitled to play EvE for free. If you're having to choose between necessities and luxuries, then you need to cut out the luxuries. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of f2p games on the market. EvE does not need to go down this route simply because you cannot afford the subscription fee.

Guess what, the picture isn't all that rosy for me either. I make just enough money to pay rent (utilities included), car insurance, phone, internet, groceries, gas for work, and EvE. If money gets short, I don't play EvE, I spend my internet time playing other f2p games. It's known has having priorities, it's called being an adult.

Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
And all those just pay 15 euro and shut up look like hillbilly comnets.

And your entitled bull ****, "I deserve to play for free because I'm poor" makes you look all sparkly clean?

If you want luxuries in life, you have to work for them.
Professor Humbert
Project Fruit House
#54 - 2016-01-21 13:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Professor Humbert
Ah, so you are asking for a measure to bring down the ISK value of PLEX so you can play for free by consuming PLEX bought with your hard earned ISK... because EVE subscription fee / PLEX real money cost is too high for an average Polish person's income? And this lowered PLEX:ISK rate will force other US / EU people to buy more PLEX with their abundant real life cash so CCP will not have revenue problem even if the Polish guys play EVE for free?

Yo, I think you should talk with your Minister of Economy or equivalent (about what his plan is for raising country's average income and when you can expect the result), not CCP.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#55 - 2016-01-21 15:36:50 UTC
All this economy hoo haw is just that - hoo haw.

If CCP wants to fix the price of plex at some max value, then they just put NPC sell orders. If CONCORD is selling plex at their stations for 800 mil isk and they have an infinite supply - the price just got capped at 800 mil. If a pilot wants to buy plex for cash and put it on the market for isk, then they either put it up for less than 800 mil or sell it deep in esoteria for 1 bil.

This is the simple and direct solution to PLEX scamipulation. (my word, you can use it, but you have to send me a PLEX first).

Anything else on this matter is pretty much hoo haw. Capping it is easy enough if CCP wants to do it. There will still be opportunities in remote areas to profit.

What it really comes down to is CCP's will on this. Are they OK w/ a few rich pilots manipulating the price? Would they prefer to listen to the poor poor masses and act justly? It's their call.

(I took some poetic liberty here, but in the end it's a simple solution if CCP sees or comes to see it as an actual problem)
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#56 - 2016-01-21 15:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Serendipity Lost wrote:
All this economy hoo haw is just that - hoo haw.

If CCP wants to fix the price of plex at some max value, then they just put NPC sell orders. If CONCORD is selling plex at their stations for 800 mil isk and they have an infinite supply - the price just got capped at 800 mil. If a pilot wants to buy plex for cash and put it on the market for isk, then they either put it up for less than 800 mil or sell it deep in esoteria for 1 bil.

This is the simple and direct solution to PLEX scamipulation. (my word, you can use it, but you have to send me a PLEX first).

Anything else on this matter is pretty much hoo haw. Capping it is easy enough if CCP wants to do it. There will still be opportunities in remote areas to profit.

What it really comes down to is CCP's will on this. Are they OK w/ a few rich pilots manipulating the price? Would they prefer to listen to the poor poor masses and act justly? It's their call.

(I took some poetic liberty here, but in the end it's a simple solution if CCP sees or comes to see it as an actual problem)


As awful as the OP's idea is, that is actually even less usable. The one thing that is definitely not going to happen is divorcing plex from real currency.

You also, it turns out, cannot buy new board games from Hasbro with the money from Monopoly. Ugh

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2016-01-21 15:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nafensoriel
Ok. You want regulation. Do you realize this can possibly lead to an event where plex is not worth buying? Yes its a thing. Smaller MMOs suffer from the issue where that 19 bucks isnt worth spending since the in game currency gains are not a significant time saving.

Additionally just a big old smack of realism to idealistic thoughts here...
Begging for regulation is basically admiting you cant handle your own crap. It's asking a government(CCP in this case) to think for you. No government has ever f*cked this up have they?


/edit
Actually I will expand this..

You want 300m plex. That's 3hrs. You want to spend 19 bucks to save 3hrs of in game time which is worth 30 days of game time.
Sounds really stupid when put into perspective doesn't it?
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2016-01-21 15:58:50 UTC
You'd have more luck asking CCP to change the regional prices you have.

The higher isk value of plex is, the more likely CCP are to shift more to people. They have a vested interest in keeping the price high.
Iain Cariaba
#59 - 2016-01-21 15:59:14 UTC
Nafensoriel wrote:
Ok. You want regulation. Do you realize this can possibly lead to an event where plex is not worth buying? Yes its a thing. Smaller MMOs suffer from the issue where that 19 bucks isnt worth spending since the in game currency gains are not a significant time saving.

Additionally just a big old smack of realism to idealistic thoughts here...
Begging for regulation is basically admiting you cant handle your own crap. It's asking a government(CCP in this case) to think for you. No government has ever f*cked this up have they?


/edit
Actually I will expand this..

You want 300m plex. That's 3hrs. You want to spend 19 bucks to save 3hrs of in game time which is worth 30 days of game time.
Sounds really stupid when put into perspective doesn't it?

Prior to the price of PLEX reaching the high point it is, I never bought PLEX to sell on market. I never figured 300m, 400m, or even 800m isk to be worth the US$20 for a PLEX. On the flip side of that, I learned a long time ago, long before PLEX even hit 400m, and trying to PLEX my accounts simply turned EvE into a second job, one that paid me a hell of a lot less than minimum wage.
Decarthado Aurgnet
Imperial Combat Engineers
Empire of Arcadia
#60 - 2016-01-23 16:16:43 UTC
If you *really* want to curb the inflation of PLEX prices, then you need to cut the isk faucet:sink ratio. It was shown to be roughly 2:1 at a fanfest presentation, which means prices of most things will be trending skyward as time goes on. The isk faucet:sink ratio is the ultimate inflation control in EVE and CCP has stated they're happy with it being at that ratio. So, what they mean by that is mission running, ratting, and mining for are not intended to be the way to get to a PLEX (unless you spend a lot of time online and/or you use bots) so much as they are a way to introduce new money into the system ... for some reason.

Either that or come up with better bot detection systems. That might also work.

Remove T2 BPO's or make them inventable at extreme cost.