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PETITION: No SP gain from injectors for 80mil+ characters

First post
Author
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-01-19 15:34:36 UTC
Arithron wrote:
I have a lot of SP.

I spent a lot of time and RL$ getting to this point. I'd like to think that CCP values me as a dedicated player and will take some small steps to protect my loyalty and dedication.

In saying this, 80mil+ is enough SP to have a highly skilled and specialised character. I don't personally think we should be able to benefit by buying more SP. After all, we are still here because we are successful in game and have a crapload of iskies- no level playing field if the feature is intended to give newer players a benefit.

Vets don't need to be able to spend isk (of which we have a lot) to get even further ahead.

Sign below if you agree with there being an upper limit for SP injector use!


So what you are saying is "**** you, got mine" right?
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#22 - 2016-01-19 15:57:10 UTC
Golemag wrote:
Casual Genius wrote:
thats pure speculation what will be if ... ist funny how ppl always jump on the hype/doom trains.

Lets see how it turns out , and then we can judge. We have anyway no chance to change this decision now. Lets hope CCP give the pricing some real thinking.

But making a petition now is just useless, we need some fresh air to the game and also ´need some new meta Roll


Exactly my point. There is really no reason to try to do anything about anything related to CCP decisions. They only listen to few brain-dead blood donors. Go back few years and tell me WHEN did CCP ever did something to reflect the wishes of their players? This whole forum section is a joke. Dust in the eyes of the ones who are TLAZYTR.

We're one step closer to F2P and P2W. Oh let it be fast death!


I can go back 3-4 months and point out where they listened to rebalancing battlecruisers (see link in my sig). They listen to people with ideas that are well thought with examples/data. Not just some "grr CCP" BS from people that dont have a clue what theyre talking about.

The SP trading thing is no different than the character bazaar that has been around for years. Except instead of trading full characters, you can just buy/sell the SP.

Bazaar: Train capital character, sell on bazaar (account is paid for in gametime and slowly accrues until its time to sell)

SPP: Buy SP for capital character. the SP came from someone else paying for gametime and also paid for the skill extractor. Its not like SP is appearing out of thin air.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#23 - 2016-01-19 16:07:11 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
The SP trading thing is no different than the character bazaar that has been around for years. Except instead of trading full characters, you can just buy/sell the SP.
May I ask, did you post that with a straight face?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2016-01-19 16:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Cedric
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
But alas, I don't think CCP cares about loyalty in this game anymore and is trying to cash it out before it dies completely.


Even if true, they are a company that needs to create a product consumers will buy so they can keep drawing paychecks. That means, no matter our ideology or principles, at some point they might have to make changes for the sole reason that it'll draw in more cash. Player annoyance be damned at that point.

And could anyone blame them? We can't expect CCP to run an unprofitable game simply because a non-profitable minority wants to have that game. Whatever CCP wants to do with EvE, it has to be profitable before it has to follow their ideals, or neither will matter.



Very well said.

Im a 10-year vet and I'll say that I haven't agreed with every decision CCP made up til now, and honestly don't agree with SP transfer shenanigans, but I still enjoy the part of the game I play I want CCP to stay successful (read IN BUSINESS!) so that I can continue to enjoy the game. If that means they make a "pay $$$ for skills" option, then so be it. It doesn't really affect me or my 140M SP, and if it adds players and content, then all the better.

Cedric

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#25 - 2016-01-19 16:55:05 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
...Im a 10-year vet and I'll say that I haven't agreed with every decision CCP made up til now, and honestly don't agree with SP transfer shenanigans, but I still enjoy the part of the game I play I want CCP to stay successful (read IN BUSINESS!) so that I can continue to enjoy the game. If that means they make a "pay $$$ for skills" option, then so be it. It doesn't really affect me or my 140M SP, and if it adds players and content, then all the better.


And don't forget to tell the new POTUS to make a new law that gives free motorcycle, combat and other aircraft and drivers licences to all new born baby across the world.

Give newborns on all parts on Earth access to nuclear facilites and DARPA weapons research then give them a little antimatter to play around with, what could go wrong??

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-01-19 16:58:39 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Dr Cedric wrote:
...Im a 10-year vet and I'll say that I haven't agreed with every decision CCP made up til now, and honestly don't agree with SP transfer shenanigans, but I still enjoy the part of the game I play I want CCP to stay successful (read IN BUSINESS!) so that I can continue to enjoy the game. If that means they make a "pay $$$ for skills" option, then so be it. It doesn't really affect me or my 140M SP, and if it adds players and content, then all the better.


And don't forget to tell the new POTUS to make a new law that gives free motorcycle, combat and other aircraft and drivers licences to all new born baby across the world.

Give newborns on all parts on Earth access to nuclear facilites and DARPA weapons research then give them a little antimatter to play around with, what could go wrong??


Is this some kind of reverse "think of the children?" because I really fail to see how the stuff you posted has anything to do with being able to buy skillpoints.
Sigras
Conglomo
#27 - 2016-01-19 18:37:31 UTC
Dr Cedric wrote:
It doesn't really affect me or my 140M SP, and if it adds players and content, then all the better.

I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong...

Right now the 100M+ SP players are a rare commodity; the ability to say to a random person in my fleet "go get your HIC" instead of having to say "who can fly a HIC?" is a big deal.

Right now those players are a rare commodity because the only way to get up to that amount of SP is to train for it, but after the patch that's all going to change. What once was rare will now be common place, and I guarantee that this change will be reflected in the prices at the character bazaar.

TL;DR
yes, it does effect you; it makes your character less rare and therefore less valuable.
NUBIARN
Brutal Ballerinas
#28 - 2016-01-19 19:07:26 UTC  |  Edited by: NUBIARN
I normally never sign petition and in this case it would be fruitless as the changes are now set in stone, however these changes are just well unbelievable.

221mil sp played since 2004 original owner

now any1 who says that the proposed changes are the same as the current char selling buying are off their heads, I can think of many ways to abuse the game with the proposed changes, whilst staying inline with the tos.

you think ganking is bad now wait till you can farm some sp of a char you have unused, build a new high sec gank char with the sp, get to -10, now extract sp and build new char rinse and repeat !! no more concequenses for, risk v reward gone. high sec will be fubbed really quickly and no high sec equals dead game.

looking the costs currently chars sell for approx. 400 to 500 isk per 1 sp roughly working out. therefore to keep parity I would guess extractor units will be in the range of 250mil isk. [1 bilo was touted in the previous release of this mechanic idea] therefore 1bil in extractors wouyld get you 2mil sp. oh yes a real help to new bros. and for old chars that 1bil isk is gonna get you 600k sp.


so really who the hell will this change help,? new chars nope, old chars nope, this changes bring nothing of use to the game in my opinion.

oh and not to mention taking the shine off of the top chars that have trained fopr ages as sp become no longer the standard for long term accounts.

to sum up MEH!
Iain Cariaba
#29 - 2016-01-19 19:14:13 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Loyalty doesn't pay bills.

This is incorrect.

Anyone who's ever ran a business can tell you that it's the regulars who pay the bills. The goal of any good customer oriented business is to entice people to return and spend more money. I've spent some time working in bars and can tell you the weekenders provide extra profits, but it's the requlars that keep the doors open.
Arithron
107th Suicide Kings
#30 - 2016-01-19 19:45:46 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dr Cedric wrote:
It doesn't really affect me or my 140M SP, and if it adds players and content, then all the better.

I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong...

Right now the 100M+ SP players are a rare commodity; the ability to say to a random person in my fleet "go get your HIC" instead of having to say "who can fly a HIC?" is a big deal.

Right now those players are a rare commodity because the only way to get up to that amount of SP is to train for it, but after the patch that's all going to change. What once was rare will now be common place, and I guarantee that this change will be reflected in the prices at the character bazaar.

TL;DR
yes, it does effect you; it makes your character less rare and therefore less valuable.



You want a player who just skilled up with SP injectors to pilot in a fleet in a pivotal role? Good luck- hope we meet P
Arithron
107th Suicide Kings
#31 - 2016-01-19 19:47:31 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Dr Cedric wrote:
It doesn't really affect me or my 140M SP, and if it adds players and content, then all the better.

I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong...

Right now the 100M+ SP players are a rare commodity; the ability to say to a random person in my fleet "go get your HIC" instead of having to say "who can fly a HIC?" is a big deal.

Right now those players are a rare commodity because the only way to get up to that amount of SP is to train for it, but after the patch that's all going to change. What once was rare will now be common place, and I guarantee that this change will be reflected in the prices at the character bazaar.

TL;DR
yes, it does effect you; it makes your character less rare and therefore less valuable.



Also, you forgot that characters will always have a high value as long as peeps buy SP- as can buy a character and squeeze all SP out.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#32 - 2016-01-19 21:05:46 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Right now those players are a rare commodity because the only way to get up to that amount of SP is to train for it, but after the patch that's all going to change. What once was rare will now be common place, and I guarantee that this change will be reflected in the prices at the character bazaar.

It will even go so far as to people asking (I will certainly be one of them because screw you and I don't like you anyways) to buy a skill injector if you cannot fly a ship/use a module and train that ship/module right this moment. People have one less excuse to not have something trained and people like me one more lever to make people feel bad. Twisted

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#33 - 2016-01-19 22:20:41 UTC
NUBIARN wrote:


you think ganking is bad now wait till you can farm some sp of a char you have unused, build a new high sec gank char with the sp, get to -10, now extract sp and build new char rinse and repeat !! no more concequenses for, risk v reward gone. high sec will be fubbed really quickly and no high sec equals


This is not likely. You cannot extract SP below 5m skill points. So, what you are suggesting cannot happen, unless someone is willing to throw away 5m SP each time they start a new gank character.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Mifune
The Rusty Muskets
#34 - 2016-01-20 01:40:10 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Arithron wrote:
I have a lot of SP.

I spent a lot of time and RL$ getting to this point. I'd like to think that CCP values me as a dedicated player and will take some small steps to protect my loyalty and dedication.

In saying this, 80mil+ is enough SP to have a highly skilled and specialised character. I don't personally think we should be able to benefit by buying more SP. After all, we are still here because we are successful in game and have a crapload of iskies- no level playing field if the feature is intended to give newer players a benefit.

Vets don't need to be able to spend isk (of which we have a lot) to get even further ahead.

Sign below if you agree with there being an upper limit for SP injector use!


Not signed.

You didn't spend any time getting your SP. you only spent RL $. Now you are upset because someone else might spend their RL $ (or in game skill gained isk) to catch up with you (at a far, far more expensive rate) and so you are crying. This is because you love pay to win, at least once you have already paid for it and others haven't. Maybe if you don't like it you should go play a more pay to win orientated game.

Truth is this measure will make eve less pay to win, not more. Currently your SP is directly related to the RL wealth you pump into the game. With this change it will be possible for some people to gain SP via being good at the game. Any way you look at it that is making the game less pay to win, and the tears of pay to win players like the op are delicious.

Do I think there should be some caps in place to stop abuse, absolutely, but overall I applaud this reduction of eves pay to win nature (which has always been there since day 1, no cash no SP).


I am sorry but if you think eve "started" as pay to win you should look up the definition. Until the ultimately stupid idea of the character bazaar there was "zero" ability to use real life money to jump ahead in skill points. You could buy +5 implants like every single other player in the game with the same risk / reward tied to them. The only way to build SP originally was through TIME invested. This whole argument revolves around breaking the bond between time invested to skill points. If you look at the nature of pay 2 win games they give players the option to cut in line if they are willing to pay the cost. That is exactly what is happening here and to see it any other way is just a misrepresentation of the facts.

I do not expect everyone to be logical enough to understand this concept but I thought I would at least try to bring some common sense to the debate.
Valkin Mordirc
#35 - 2016-01-20 04:56:50 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Loyalty doesn't pay bills.

This is incorrect.

Anyone who's ever ran a business can tell you that it's the regulars who pay the bills. The goal of any good customer oriented business is to entice people to return and spend more money. I've spent some time working in bars and can tell you the weekenders provide extra profits, but it's the requlars that keep the doors open.



+1 to this,


I run a local store where I live, and making sure my customers are happy with the product I provide. And making sure that they want to order again, is incredibly important. I take care of my regulars because they take care of me and my own employee's. If a customer is angry or mad, I don't care, I will throw so much free **** at them because I know if I do, they'll order from me again, and again. That's why Loyalty is important for any business.


However my business is not as large as CCP, but I know that when you do make changes, you will very vocal minority who will complain. The reason why they are so vocal though, is because they know that you are listening.

Which is in fact a good thing. CCP's Player base knows that they listen.
#DeleteTheWeak
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2016-01-20 05:07:22 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Loyalty doesn't pay bills.

This is incorrect.

Anyone who's ever ran a business can tell you that it's the regulars who pay the bills. The goal of any good customer oriented business is to entice people to return and spend more money. I've spent some time working in bars and can tell you the weekenders provide extra profits, but it's the requlars that keep the doors open.


But I'm pretty sure bars don't go under because the owner added popcorn as a new offering over the already available peanuts...
Iain Cariaba
#37 - 2016-01-20 05:09:10 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
CCP's Player base knows that they listen.

I question this some times. Quite a few of their recent new features were not received well by the players in testjng, but they were implemented anyway.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#38 - 2016-01-20 05:28:42 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Loyalty doesn't pay bills.

This is incorrect.

Anyone who's ever ran a business can tell you that it's the regulars who pay the bills. The goal of any good customer oriented business is to entice people to return and spend more money. I've spent some time working in bars and can tell you the weekenders provide extra profits, but it's the requlars that keep the doors open.



+1 to this,


I run a local store where I live, and making sure my customers are happy with the product I provide. And making sure that they want to order again, is incredibly important. I take care of my regulars because they take care of me and my own employee's. If a customer is angry or mad, I don't care, I will throw so much free **** at them because I know if I do, they'll order from me again, and again. That's why Loyalty is important for any business.


However my business is not as large as CCP, but I know that when you do make changes, you will very vocal minority who will complain. The reason why they are so vocal though, is because they know that you are listening.

Which is in fact a good thing. CCP's Player base knows that they listen.


Listening yes, heeding no.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2016-01-20 12:59:20 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
But I'm pretty sure bars don't go under because the owner added popcorn as a new offering over the already available peanuts...

Precisely.

And

Iain Cariaba wrote:
This is incorrect.

Anyone who's ever ran a business can tell you that it's the regulars who pay the bills. The goal of any good customer oriented business is to entice people to return and spend more money. I've spent some time working in bars and can tell you the weekenders provide extra profits, but it's the requlars that keep the doors open.

This is incorrect.

What you are describing is customer service. Loyalty is when you make a mistake and your regulars forgive you for it, like how the online numbers seem to be climbing again with a lot of the recent changes

I've already said customer service is important but at the end of the day, CCP needs their dollar. You said you worked in bars, so I'll use Cheers as an example.

Sam Malone is offering dishes of popcorn as an alternative to the peanuts at each table. Norm disapproves.

Does Cheers go under because Norm disapproves? Maybe yes. Maybe no. Norm is loyal to Cheers and does spend a lot of time at the bar, but the bar is mostly empty most of the day. If offering popcorn brings in Dr. Fraiser Crane and Lilith more often, plus a bunch of their friends, then Cheers still has a net positive income despite the lack of Norm.

Every business is going to make mistakes and I'm not going to say that CCP is perfect, but as a business seeking profit, I have to assume they've put some time and money researching an idea before implementing it. They could be wrong. You could be completely and utterly right. But Fraiser, Lilith, and their friends might become the new loyal customers you would so readily covet.

Having one or two loyal customers and having a struggling business doesn't compute when you have the opportunity to bring in a dozen or hundreds of new and loyal customers by changing. It's the nature of business. If you never change, you never grow, and probably fold.

The game (which I just lost) changed hundreds of times before I ever joined. If I played on day one, I may not have been impressed and may never have been a paying customer. Many people here may share in that. What about you? When did you start? Was it day one? If you bought into this game on day one and it was just completely awful, would you have come back in five years to try again? If you did, or if you would, and found it better, would you have paid any heed to a person in your current shoes proclaiming this isn't the game he signed up for? Or would you just enjoy the game you found, rather than the game he lamented over losing?

Business IS risk, and you have to make educated gambles to get ahead and expand. This game is radically different from even when *I* started, and it seems to only be getting better. If you feel betrayed as a loyal customer, pull your money out. But it is their business decision to make, and if they make a change that brings in five people to replace you, then your loyalty and desire to have them cater to it would have cost them money and growth.

Never overestimate your importance as a customer.

CCP hopefully put accurate research into this idea and they made the right customer service decision. If it wins over more players, more power to them. If it flops, more power to you and all those in your camp. It will be your victory. But either way this heads, I support CCP's initiative. It's their business to run, it's their business to lose.

That said, I reserve the right to be annoyed if/when they remove learning implants rather than overhauling the jump clone system. I never said you couldn't be upset with a decision, just that it's CCP's decision to make.
Loki Feiht
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#40 - 2016-01-20 13:05:06 UTC
What holds true for new players should hold for old, loyal players, granted there are some issues with SP trading but I don't think a skill point ceiling is one of them.

More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

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