These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

NPC Jamming broken?

Author
Sheya Foxclaw
Nine Tails Fleet
#1 - 2011-09-15 04:07:14 UTC
I have been chain jammed by NPCs so often I have to constantly suppress my desire to strangle the developers who made a system where anyone could be out of control of their ship for so long (common game development wisdom says ~10 seconds max to let the PC be out of control of their character before players start going postal, and I've been chain jammed for over a minute before -- Hello! Paging Dr. Diminishing Returns!!).

But beside that point, it doesn't appear that the NPCs even care about sensor strength, sensor boosters, or any item/skill that is supposed to make it harder to jam. I have compiled some anecdotal evidence with both a drake and a tengu (with wildly varying sensor strengths) on the gurista's extravaganza level 4 mission (which has a decent amount of jamming ships) and have noticed my Tengu (with the higher sensor strength) gets jammed MORE often than my drake did. Using a sensor booster for my sensor type did nothing to help the rate at which I got jammed.

I have noticed this over the course of maybe 5 or so runs through gurista's extravaganza on each ship, so it's not just luck of the draw on one mission. Further, I notice the jammers seem to a) always land their jam on my Tengu, and b) always jam me immediately upon targeting (successfully, I might add).

I believe the jamming system to be so immensely flawed beyond repair that CCP should just junk it in NPC missions, but that's not going to happen, so I'd at least consider this odd rule-breaking by the NPCs a major bug. I know from these forums I am not nearly the only one who has noticed this and it's beginning to upset me past insanity and into the "bind rage" region. This whole jamming system needs to be scrapped or fixed at the very least.

Ciao!
Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
#2 - 2011-09-15 04:11:33 UTC
The last two times I ran Guristas Blockade I didn't get jammed once. vOv
Roh Voleto
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-09-15 05:02:01 UTC
It's not a bug. They actually "fixed" the old bugs, and then they iterated on the "fix".

Of course, it's still broken and is now harder/impossible to resist and leaves you incapacitated for minutes rather than seconds.
Sassaniak
Deadspace Zombie Factory
#4 - 2011-09-15 05:30:39 UTC
FOF, drones, or god forbid, friends.

yes it is now a pain, yes it happens so often that it seems broken, yes it was broken in the past, yes the first "Fix" made it broken in the other direction, and yes you can get perma jammed in a mission space.

Quote:

I believe the jamming system to be so immensely flawed beyond repair that CCP should just junk it in NPC missions, but that's not going to happen, so I'd at least consider this odd rule-breaking by the NPCs a major bug. I know from these forums I am not nearly the only one who has noticed this and it's beginning to upset me past insanity and into the "bind rage" region. This whole jamming system needs to be scrapped or fixed at the very least.


you need to get out and try something else. find some friends, try other ships, use drones

this mechanic seems to be working as intended.
the intention being to **** people off but that doesn't mean that they have to change it back or that you have exhausted in game, and other intended functions of the game to work around this issue.

...............................................................................

Sometimes, you all make me very disappointed.

Main Malaak
Annexion Industries
#5 - 2011-09-15 07:30:45 UTC
Sheya Foxclaw wrote:
Using a sensor booster for my sensor type did nothing to help the rate at which I got jammed.



Jamming = ECM, therefore a sensor booster wont help you, because this would be the counter for sensor dampening. What you need is an ECCM mod afaik. But not sure if it works with NPCs at all.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#6 - 2011-09-15 10:56:27 UTC
ECCM and ECM work just fine in encounters with NPCs.

Back in the day there was a misunderstanding about NPCs having a "fixed chance to jam" which was the developers actually saying, "fixed chance to attempt to jam" with the jamming then working as normal - several experiments back in the day indicated that ECCM worked just fine back then too.

I've flown many missions against Guristas in my Tengu. It's fitted with a Dissolution Sequencer so the sensor strength is 35. The typical ECM-equipped NPC has a jam strength of 3, meaning there's about a 1/11 chance of getting jammed by any given NPC in a 20s cycle.

I've also flown in missions with friends where they have been happily blasting away at NPCs, then after the mission they have claimed to have been "permajammed".

As a result of these experiences, I have to ask if you have any evidence to support your claims of NPC jamming being particularly bad, or if you are perhaps spinning a yarn or fishing story.
Hamster Too
Golden Fowl
#7 - 2011-09-15 11:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Hamster Too
Sensor booster is a wrong module to fit, you need either ECCM or Sensor Backup Array to counter jamming.

Fitting ECCM on my Tengu helps a lot, on a few occasions that I was perma-jammed I found that warping out and then back in seemed to break the perma-jam chain.

Also, don't pay too much attention to jamming countdown timer in the lower middle of the screen, it is broken and quite often gets stuck in an infinite loop until you either dock or jump.
Emperor Salazar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-09-15 13:37:54 UTC
ECM is chance based. You can improve this chance by using ECCM or sensor strength implants.

However, even if you get the chances of being jammed down to 25% (throwing a number out there) and you have...let's say 8 NPCs that can jam trying to jam you, odds are you'll still get jammed a fair bit. Each attempt at jamming you is an individual event of chance.

Sucks but you'll get over it.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-09-15 14:57:53 UTC
Sheya Foxclaw wrote:
(common game development wisdom says ~10 seconds max to let the PC be out of control of their character before players start going postal,!



According to who?

Call it artificially inflating the difficulty if you want, but the end result is still the same. It makes the mission harder. Try using a different fitting. If you're fighting a faction that uses ECM as a primary method of defense, you kinda need to fit something to counter that.
Kesshisan
#10 - 2011-09-15 15:20:07 UTC
Sheya Foxclaw wrote:
be out of control of their ship for so long (common game development wisdom says ~10 seconds max to let the PC be out of control of their character before players start going postal, and I've been chain jammed for over a minute before -- Hello! Paging Dr. Diminishing Returns!!).


I was not aware that your engines turned off, you were unable to initiate warp, you aren't able to change directions, and your modules turned off when you got jammed. If that's happening, you might want to file a bug report; jamming isn't supposed to make you lose control of your character or ship.

For the internet-challenged, the above is dripping with sarcasm.

More seriously, I live in Guristas space in null sec. I fly a Gila and I rarely get jammed. I might get jammed maybe once or twice per haven. It really isn't that bad. It's not "that bad" not because I have a drone boat but because of how weak Guristas are. The preferred damage to Guristas is Kinetic, which a lot of common ships get damage bonuses to. And the #2 damage to deal is Thermal damage, which is something even rail guns and lasers do well enough.

The damage to resist is 79% Kinetic and 18% Thermic. This means you can pretty much ignore thermal resists and have only 2 or 3 kinetic hardeners or amplifiers and be just fine, leaving more tank slots open for utility or damage depending on if you're a shield or armor tank.

Quite frankly, I consider Guristas the weakest of all pirate factions for the above reasons and more. The fact that they jam once in a while means that they die at about the same rate as other pirates even though they're weaker. And if you have friends, you may find that Guristas die faster. The Jamming puts them in line with other pirates, but as a human you focus on the 0 dps part, and ignore the overall because that's human nature. And once you learn which ships jam and remove them from the field first, you'll find that you may actually start killing Guristas faster than other pirates.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#11 - 2011-09-16 01:50:10 UTC
Sheya Foxclaw wrote:
... wisdom says ~10 seconds max to let the PC be out of control ...


Excellent! Would that be the other game so many ppl talk about here? Wow, or something?

In my limited experience there are many aspects of eve that require an attention span of more than 10s and, I hafta admit, I kinda like that aspect of the game.


Sheya Foxclaw wrote:
I believe the jamming system to be so immensely flawed beyond repair that CCP should just junk it in NPC missions, but that's not going to happen, so I'd at least consider this odd rule-breaking by the NPCs a major bug.


I started in Minnie missions where you occasionally got target painted and rarely suffered any other significant EW. Recently I went and played with the amarr and caldari where all sorts of (effective) EW is thrown at you. It just changed the mission dynamic and slowed me down for a wee while but, hey, it's just part of the game.

Jamming happens, and other forms of EW happen, and it's up to us to adapt and adjust ... to try keep our enjoyment and isk-flow running high. I guess, if it irks you so much, you could decline those missions ... or move to minmatar space where mission agents give you less nasty missions EW-wise.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-09-16 02:10:02 UTC
yes jamming is broken in missions, which is why i cancel all gurista missions