These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

HICs...whose idea was it

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2016-01-15 17:13:40 UTC
Don't engage a HIC in a paper tanked racing ship. Scout gates. Problem solved.
rodensteiner
Looser Cannons
#22 - 2016-01-15 17:29:53 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Don't engage a HIC in a paper tanked racing ship. Scout gates. Problem solved.


Solo destroyer = no scouts. Also, why would you think I was trying to engage him?
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2016-01-15 17:37:34 UTC
No scouts, you die in Gatecamps. That used to be common knowledge. Kids these days...
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2016-01-15 17:41:51 UTC
rodensteiner wrote:
to let them shut down mwd's now? Like, who sat there and thought "hey, lets take a super tanky cruiser, and give it the ability to warp scramble up to 37.5km (or even 40km)" ?



Awwww did someone ruin your "Kite all the things" doctrine?

NaCl is potent here
rodensteiner
Looser Cannons
#25 - 2016-01-15 18:10:04 UTC
King Aires wrote:
rodensteiner wrote:
to let them shut down mwd's now? Like, who sat there and thought "hey, lets take a super tanky cruiser, and give it the ability to warp scramble up to 37.5km (or even 40km)" ?



Awwww did someone ruin your "Kite all the things" doctrine?

NaCl is potent here


Bringing out all the original comebacks Roll
Celise Katelo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-01-15 18:13:39 UTC
Make better use of D-scan, nothing should be able to catch you, if you leave a sight before anything is close.
When using gates - Always use a scout, if you don't want to take a risk.

EVEBoard ...Just over 60million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#27 - 2016-01-15 18:20:08 UTC
Celise Katelo wrote:
Make better use of D-scan, nothing should be able to catch you, if you leave a sight before anything is close.
When using gates - Always use a scout, if you don't want to take a risk.

Huh?

A Destroyer is a perfectly acceptable scout. Are you saying that you need a frig to scout your destroyer? That would be taking multi-boxing to ridiculous levels, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen Cool
Memphis Baas
#28 - 2016-01-15 18:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
There are other ships that project long range ewar effects, and even warp disruption, so basically I doubt they'll change the HIC the way you like.

As a matter of fact, they seem to be going the opposite way: they've added other "unfair" effects, such as ships that have the capability to drag your ship with them as they microjump 100km away, thereby forcing you off the undock point or way far away from the gate. And this dragging can be chained, if they have multiple ships; you can easily find yourself dragged to the next grid.

EDIT: Maybe with the disabling effect that scrams and the HIC script have, they'll reconsider some of the negative side-effects of installing MWDs, and un-nerf them a little. But I doubt it, and the mwd is probably ok the way it is.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#29 - 2016-01-15 18:59:29 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

I'll say this much too, if this is true, then they probably need a nerf to their tank. T2 are supposed to be specialised, and giving a heavy interdictor a better than than a HAC, ie something specialised for catching stuff for the fleet, is akin to giving an interceptor a better tank than an assault frigate. IMO. Balance and all that, seems whack to me if they're getting better tanks than HACs.



Do you even know what these ships are supposed to do? They are heavy interdiction cruisers, meaning they're basically supposed to stay in one place and take a beating while pinning other targets down - that is their intended purpose, and there is absolutely no problem in that regard.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-01-15 19:32:16 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Doc is fairly sure it was someone at CCP.





JP is pretty certain that Docs way of thinking is right.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#31 - 2016-01-15 19:39:42 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
There are other ships that project long range ewar effects, and even warp disruption, so basically I doubt they'll change the HIC the way you like.

As a matter of fact, they seem to be going the opposite way: they've added other "unfair" effects, such as ships that have the capability to drag your ship with them as they microjump 100km away, thereby forcing you off the undock point or way far away from the gate. And this dragging can be chained, if they have multiple ships; you can easily find yourself dragged to the next grid.

EDIT: Maybe with the disabling effect that scrams and the HIC script have, they'll reconsider some of the negative side-effects of installing MWDs, and un-nerf them a little. But I doubt it, and the mwd is probably ok the way it is.

Now I'd like to see this chaining, dragging you 8k km away from a station.
Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#32 - 2016-01-15 20:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ibutho Inkosi
Using tne Muninn and Broadsword for comparision:

The Muninn (HAC) has 1580 shield HP, whereas the Broadsword (HIC) has 2000. Somewhat of a good start there.

They both have 75%EM, 60%Thermal, 40%Kinetic and 50%Explosive shield resists out the gate. Quite generous and pushing you toward a shield tank...if possible.

However the HIC (Broadsword) has a whopping 6 medium slots to the Muninnn's 3, giving you five slots to work with for a shield tank after slotting a propulsion mod on the HIC, whereas a paltry two for the Muninn.

So it's obvious you can shield tank the HIC much better than you can the HAC.
The HAC, however, has six low slots...so you can get as hefty an armor tank.
This of course assumes with EVE's present build armor and shield tanking are comparable.

The big however here is, for the HAC you'll want to install a weapons mod (gyro), which will eat into your tank slots.
The HIC doesn't have this problem, and actually has an extra low where you can easily fit mods AND a damage control.

Oh yes, one other thing - the Broadsword has a 20% resist increase across the board for a role bonus! Training HIC to V would give you 100% resist increase across the board? (I'm not really sure that's what that really means, but there it is.)

SO.....it does look like you can tank a HIC better than a HAC....much better.


Soooooooooo....how's the weather? Cool

As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
Amarrchecko
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2016-01-15 20:59:27 UTC
Ibutho Inkosi wrote:

The HAC, however, has six low slohe Broadsword has a 20% resist increase across the board for a role bonus! Training HIC to V would give you 100% resist increase across the board?


Role bonus is a flat, one-time thing. It's not related to ship skill level.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#34 - 2016-01-15 21:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
I'd be happy if HIC uber scram didn't apply to MJD's.. but i guess its needed now with the new command dessie gimmick.

I guess i'm just not happy that yet again CCP has taken a nice steamy dump on the few mechanics that makes roaming in larger ships (BC/BS) viable. Then the excuse to dump all over large ships is because a f'n small ship with a large ship mechanic was introduced.

17 small ships have been introduced in the past year, 13 of those just a couple patches ago, yet we have nothing for ships bigger than cruisers. There is an obvious gap in having no pirate BC's, but i guess no one cares. We need MORE dessies apparently.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#35 - 2016-01-15 22:06:10 UTC
Having seen the cyclical nature of warfare in Eve over the years I have to admit Im very happy with things the way they are. Where one change pushes an innovation, which then pushes innovations for counters, which then push more counters until CCP changes something again to start the entire process again. CCP has introduced a lot of changes in this regard with ship and module balancing lately and quite quickly as well as the new ships and modules. They have a lot of Aces left up their sleeves in terms of continuing those changes to force more innovation in the future. But too many changes too quickly isnt good either just as too slow changes will stagnate the game.

So yes I am quite happy with it and posts like this really go a long way to show me that things are changing for people.



That being said I could see the case for a slight HIC HP reduction but not much. But again I think itl depend a lot on the new capital ships changes coming down the pipe as to whether such a reduction would be necessary given the raw DPS numbers and proposed tactical changes that will occur with those warfare changes. The real question Id suggest would be the: do they need to die more? one.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2016-01-15 22:11:35 UTC
Infinite points are fine no I'm not biased stop asking.


Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Zerry
Doomheim
#37 - 2016-01-15 23:22:18 UTC
I feel the long scram is compansation for not beeing able to recive Remote reps..
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2016-01-15 23:47:15 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
Infinite points are fine no I'm not biased stop asking.

I'm definitely also possibly not biased maybe.
I mean, proficiency rated as IV means exactly that (never mind that it counts weapon systems but not the ability to fit a WDFG), right?
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2016-01-15 23:51:44 UTC
Whether that was the line of thinking or not. The whole HAC-HIC comparison is pointless. HICs are supposed to sit somewhere, take a beating and keep other ships from warping away, and they don't do much beyond that. Their Speed is bad, heir DPS output is not all that impressive, and their damage application is not great either. HACs are supposed to be agile and apply loads of damage to about anything, and they are doing that fairly well. Yes, they may be less tanky, but when HACs do what they are doing best, they can get reps. When HICs do what they are doing best, they are basically stationary targets and on their own.

Just two completely different ship classes for two completely different roles.

I think, the scram feature is a nice addition to make Hictors a bit more useful, because besides pointing Supers and Titans, there wasn't much a HIC could do that couldn't be done by a cheaper ship as well.

For the whole solo destroyer thing: I am not saying you need to bring a dedicated scout for a destroyer. I wouldn't either. But if you don't you will eventually run into a gate camp and die in a fire. That's just how it is. A Lachesis with an anchorable bubble would have gotten you as well. If you fly around solo, situations you cannot realistically hope to escape will occur. A solo HIC behind a gate is just one among many.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2016-01-15 23:54:11 UTC
Zerry wrote:
I feel the long scram is compansation for not beeing able to recive Remote reps..



Basically you make yourself a dread in siege with long scram. Which is fine. Because it is a ship class that doesn't do well on its own and must have support to be effective. There are many counters to HICs when you are in smaller ships, one of which is get out of range.

It isn't our fault the guy didn't think about the consequences of fitting a module that can be turned off in pvp.
Previous page123Next page