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Them Curses

Author
TomlikesBush
You're Doing It Wrong
#1 - 2015-12-30 17:35:36 UTC
With so many Curses hanging around Hagilur Low sec area its really making me want to move.

I feel minni really struggle vs curses.

has anyone got advice on the perfect minmitar curse killer boat.

Lol
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#2 - 2015-12-31 00:02:01 UTC
maybe a cyclone?
Lucy Callagan
the king asked me to guard the mountain
Silent Company
#3 - 2015-12-31 00:23:16 UTC
arty fleet cane
RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
Undead Nation
#4 - 2015-12-31 08:33:00 UTC
TomlikesBush wrote:
With so many Curses hanging around Hagilur Low sec area its really making me want to move.

I feel minni really struggle vs curses.

has anyone got advice on the perfect minmitar curse killer boat.

Lol


Well that's an issue, the best solution to kill a curse is having 2 nos on your ship, scramb it and brawl it down, barrage, fusion and hail are very very bad choices, so you have to stick to depleted uranium, phased plasma and emp.
For missiles choose mjolnir or inferno.

But now have the real issue, to brawl them down you have to pin them down, most curses i've seen are nanofit and faster than any brawlship, artys struggle if they're smart and fit TDs...

I've flown Curse solo a lot and can tell you, if you aint ******* it up, you can't be caught 1v1, orthus was a nice counter until recent neutingrange changes .... (now you can neut it even at 45k -55k =) )

Longstory short, there's no "very good" winmatar counter for a curse, because a curse is the counter to winmatar kitingmeta, you can try it with a cyclone, if oyu can get a scramb on that curse, combo of rapier + cyclone however should do the job.
I could imagine that 10mn svipuls with dualnos in highs have a real chance too, but never tried it myself though.
Daku Otsito
Otsito Response Team
#5 - 2016-01-05 14:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Daku Otsito
catch it in one mwd cycle and kill it.. with 600 Dps OH, you have a med nos for the scrambler only (the only thing that needs cap)


[Vagabond, curse killer]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Energy Nosferatu II

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II

Acolyte II x5


you didn't catch it? who cares kill its drones , you can perma tank its dps anyway (350 ish)until cap boosters last (and you can fit in A LOT of navy cap 150s. And if he still doesn't go away shoot at him, you project real easy at 28k for almost half your gun dps and full drone dps ,

edit : one trick about the nos and the scram. Activate the nos 1 sec before the scram and with very little luck your nos will fuel the scram no matter the neuting power of the curse
Liam Inkuras
ParabeIIum
#6 - 2016-01-14 19:02:39 UTC
Small nos is curse hard counter

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Thorian Baalnorn
Vergnugen Industries
Evictus.
#7 - 2016-01-18 08:17:16 UTC
Daku Otsito wrote:
catch it in one mwd cycle and kill it.. with 600 Dps OH, you have a med nos for the scrambler only (the only thing that needs cap)


[Vagabond, curse killer]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Energy Nosferatu II

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II

Acolyte II x5


you didn't catch it? who cares kill its drones , you can perma tank its dps anyway (350 ish)until cap boosters last (and you can fit in A LOT of navy cap 150s. And if he still doesn't go away shoot at him, you project real easy at 28k for almost half your gun dps and full drone dps ,

edit : one trick about the nos and the scram. Activate the nos 1 sec before the scram and with very little luck your nos will fuel the scram no matter the neuting power of the curse


That wont even scratch my curse. You would dead before you could kill all my drones and wouldnt even put me close to armor. It would take you almost 15 minutes to kill me.

OP: If you want to kill a curse or at least make it go away, ill give you some hints.
1) Auto cannons with high tracking
2) tracking enhancers
3) this is the most important... either a passive tank that can soak 400 dps or a large shield buffer tank ( at least 50k EHP)
4) Pro tip: go high resist to thermal.

How to kill a curse ( or make it go away): Lock curse and fire, if thats not working for you, lock drones and fire. Once drones are dead he will have no dps unless he has an lol gun fit. So he will obviously go away and if he stays well you have all day to kill him.

Everyone tries to outrun a curse and thats why they seem so hard to beat. Dont outrun it, tank it...passively.

Luckily most people dont know how to fit a curse to get maximum effectiveness out of it. Ill give you a hint...you dont put an MWD on one. It kills survivability.

Sometimes you are the squirrel and sometimes you are the nut. Today, you are the nut and the squirrel is hungry.

Switch Savage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-01-18 15:35:12 UTC
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:
Daku Otsito wrote:
catch it in one mwd cycle and kill it.. with 600 Dps OH, you have a med nos for the scrambler only (the only thing that needs cap)


[Vagabond, curse killer]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Energy Nosferatu II

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II

Acolyte II x5


you didn't catch it? who cares kill its drones , you can perma tank its dps anyway (350 ish)until cap boosters last (and you can fit in A LOT of navy cap 150s. And if he still doesn't go away shoot at him, you project real easy at 28k for almost half your gun dps and full drone dps ,

edit : one trick about the nos and the scram. Activate the nos 1 sec before the scram and with very little luck your nos will fuel the scram no matter the neuting power of the curse


That wont even scratch my curse. You would dead before you could kill all my drones and wouldnt even put me close to armor. It would take you almost 15 minutes to kill me.

OP: If you want to kill a curse or at least make it go away, ill give you some hints.
1) Auto cannons with high tracking
2) tracking enhancers
3) this is the most important... either a passive tank that can soak 400 dps or a large shield buffer tank ( at least 50k EHP)
4) Pro tip: go high resist to thermal.

How to kill a curse ( or make it go away): Lock curse and fire, if thats not working for you, lock drones and fire. Once drones are dead he will have no dps unless he has an lol gun fit. So he will obviously go away and if he stays well you have all day to kill him.

Everyone tries to outrun a curse and thats why they seem so hard to beat. Dont outrun it, tank it...passively.

Luckily most people dont know how to fit a curse to get maximum effectiveness out of it. Ill give you a hint...you dont put an MWD on one. It kills survivability.


What on earth are you smoking. You realise that vagabond he linked tanks over 800 dps on each ancil with mid grade crystals and standard blue. He could and would quite literally perma tank you until he runs out of charges (over 100) even if you have him fully neuted. He has a ungodly amount of time to chew through your 150m3 drone bay. That said i do not really like that Vagabond fit but my comments stand.
Dreaded Vengance
The Congregation
420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED
#9 - 2016-01-18 18:00:08 UTC
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:
Luckily most people dont know how to fit a curse to get maximum effectiveness out of it. Ill give you a hint...you dont put an MWD on one. It kills survivability.


Ok boss, taking off all my MWDs so I magically become awesome.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#10 - 2016-01-18 18:32:36 UTC
Dreaded Vengance wrote:
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:
Luckily most people dont know how to fit a curse to get maximum effectiveness out of it. Ill give you a hint...you dont put an MWD on one. It kills survivability.


Ok boss, taking off all my MWDs so I magically become awesome.


Ive not been following this thread so missed this, but a curse that isnt nano is a horrible curse lol.
Lucy Callagan
the king asked me to guard the mountain
Silent Company
#11 - 2016-01-18 20:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Callagan
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:

That wont even scratch my curse. You would dead before you could kill all my drones and wouldnt even put me close to armor. It would take you almost 15 minutes to kill me.


The funny thing is that, according to your killboard, you never lost nor kill anything in a curse. Is that a ratting fit you're talking about ?

I am really intested about this promising new meta.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#12 - 2016-01-18 20:35:54 UTC
Lucy Callagan wrote:
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:

That wont even scratch my curse. You would dead before you could kill all my drones and wouldnt even put me close to armor. It would take you almost 15 minutes to kill me.


The funny thing is that, according to your killboard, you never lost nor kill anything in a curse. Is that a ratting fit you're talking about ?

I am really intested about this promising new meta.


His Curse is invincible and destroys everything so thoroughly that they do not even leave a killmail.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Lucy Callagan
the king asked me to guard the mountain
Silent Company
#13 - 2016-01-18 20:38:36 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Lucy Callagan wrote:
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:

That wont even scratch my curse. You would dead before you could kill all my drones and wouldnt even put me close to armor. It would take you almost 15 minutes to kill me.


The funny thing is that, according to your killboard, you never lost nor kill anything in a curse. Is that a ratting fit you're talking about ?

I am really intested about this promising new meta.


His Curse is invincible and destroys everything so thoroughly that they do not even leave a killmail.


#obliteration
Thorian Baalnorn
Vergnugen Industries
Evictus.
#14 - 2016-01-20 09:57:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn
Well its good to say that forum warriors in W&T are as tightly wound as ever. Thats good cause they murdered COAD. Its good to have warriors on the forums... you know protecting stuff but mostly flaming, trolling, and insulting people.

Switch Savage wrote:

What on earth are you smoking. You realise that vagabond he linked tanks over 800 dps on each ancil with mid grade crystals and standard blue. He could and would quite literally perma tank you until he runs out of charges (over 100) even if you have him fully neuted. He has a ungodly amount of time to chew through your 150m3 drone bay. That said i do not really like that Vagabond fit but my comments stand.


I think the pilot went out on my stove... I am quite aware of how to use cut and paste and EFT. However do you know how to light a pilot light without blowing up a house? Mid grade crystals, standard blue.... welcome to eve theory crafting. Lets get technical, technical...i want to get technical.

he could do it with a vaga, or anything with a passive, buffer, or as the fit has cap boosted shields...maybe....probably, almost for sure. Though i wasnt joking on that build would do minimal damage to my curse. If i cant make decent progress on a tank , i would disengage and find a more appealing target. Or actually i would probably just tank it lock it down call my mates and blow it to hell. Yeah probably that. This is eve and all, someone has to die. Got to keep the wheels of industry rolling.

Lucy Callagan wrote:


The funny thing is that, according to your killboard, you never lost nor kill anything in a curse. Is that a ratting fit you're talking about ?

I am really intested about this promising new meta.


Lets see i have been playing 8 years, the chances of me having more than one alt is? Ill let you think about it a while.

Little secret on KBs below...oh and not all my kills on any of my alts is on every KB. I only post KMs in the places required by my corp or alliance or if someone hounds me for it. I think on zkillboards i have 80-90 kills. I had that in one alliance on this alt during a huge alliance war. Not hard to get on KMs. I could do it in a ibis...ohhh i might do that just to prove how stupid kill boards are. i will go KM whoring in nothing but an Ibis!
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Ive not been following this thread so missed this, but a curse that isnt nano is a horrible curse lol.


Here is a little schooling about pvp in Eve. Eve is a unique game in that we are given a variety of tools with very few limits on how we can use those on other players.

Ships and modules are tools. Skills( SP) is what we use to be able to use those tools. However player skill, is something that CCP does not provide us with. Why do you think cookie cutter and fleet doctrines exist? Need warm bodies to push buttons but we need to take the thinking part out of it cause they will screw up. And most will.

PVP is a battle of player skills using a variety of tools supplied by CCP. A bad player needs a really good fit...one thats hard to screw up using and is simple to operate. This gave rise to the cookie cutter builds in games. Fleet doctrines and cookie cutter ships make sure all the people that think they know how to pvp point their gun in the right direction.

PvP is a skill, one ive been perfecting in a variety of games for the last 20 years. Its not about what tools you use. Its about how you use them. A recent example comes to mine in which i saw a kill in which a procurer got a kill on a combat ship. Not only did it get on the KM but it did most of the damage and tackled it....its a *******mining barge! People like that dont use stupid little cookie cutter builds. They build ships to use as weapons in the manner they like to kill people. And those are the most effective people in combat.


As a parting note: i would like to remind all you killboard fans, KBs stats are misleading in many ways and for most players they are highly inflated and say zero about actual skill( see fleet battles, KM whoring, ganking noobs, structure bashing, and other fun ways to get KM with zero skill) . Sadly people use the KBs for the wrong things... to measure epeens. Its best used as an intel tool and a good pvper will want to keep intel on his non cookie cutter builds off there. If you know how i fit it, then you can figure out how to counter it. Remember that.




Mr Crosi up there^^^ would expect a nanocurse, because he thinks inside the box. And inside the box their is only a nano curse. So he would fit to beat a nano curse and die when it is not a nano curse. Round of applause to Mr Crosi for the valiant effort!

Sometimes you are the squirrel and sometimes you are the nut. Today, you are the nut and the squirrel is hungry.

Dreaded Vengance
The Congregation
420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED
#15 - 2016-01-20 13:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dreaded Vengance
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:
Again, what?


I think you're missing the point somewhat. Think of this as a hypothetical problem posed by the OP.


The scenario
You're in a 1v1 situation with a Curse
You only have a Minmatar ship at your disposal

Lets assume a few things:

This is occuring in a FW medium plex, given the normal topic of discussion in W&T and where many Combat Recons are used today
He/She/Heshe will exploit the bonuses inherent in the ship, I haven't sat in one since the neut falloff changes but lets say it can apply max neuts at 40km

The issue
Landing tackle and DPS on the Curse and maintaining until it pops

You're just being asked to provide some evidence (as none seems available) on your supposed counter for the Vaga which you commented upon. IMO it's got a reasonable chance if it can actually close that assumed ~40km gap on a target that's likely to try and match radial velocity whilst draining cap in a neut cycle. Without doubt the Vaga has superior gank and tank, assume it has links, drugs, implants also if you're going to factor that in.

If a straight up brawling Curse is a thing, I think we'd all like to see it. I mean, if you don't have an MWD, you've in part solved the Vagas problem.

Also, I checked and my stove has no pilot light! What to do?
Dreaded Vengance
The Congregation
420 MLG TWINTURBO 3000 EMPIRE ALLIANCE RELOADED
#16 - 2016-01-20 13:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dreaded Vengance
Oops, double post innit
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-01-20 14:49:34 UTC
So what you're saying Thorian is that you have no proof of your fits success, but you are going to continue to laud its merits?
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#18 - 2016-01-20 15:03:12 UTC
Lol killboard do matter or else how would anyone see that I soloed a small control tower in my kestrel?

But seriously, most curses I encounter are nano, and the fact that they can be fit differently is irrelevant unless you have some legitimate reason to believe that it isn't (I.e. Part of an armor gang, kb history). You can lose on a good bet and win on a bad bet, but over time good bets net you more wins.

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#19 - 2016-01-20 15:13:15 UTC
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:

Mr Crosi up there^^^ would expect a nanocurse, because he thinks inside the box. And inside the box their is only a nano curse. So he would fit to beat a nano curse and die when it is not a nano curse. Round of applause to Mr Crosi for the valiant effort!


Saying that a counter-counter fit will kill a counter fit is kind of redundant. Making sweeping statements with edge cases to support them is kinda silly.

Ive had my fair share of anti-kite kills when they came to kill my nano maulus, but id changed out to a brick tanked sebo scram web blaster maulus. But i think we can agree that the brick tanked sebo scram web blaster maulus has such a narrow engagement envelope that it would be fair to consider it a terrible fit for general use.
Daku Otsito
Otsito Response Team
#20 - 2016-01-21 15:16:25 UTC
Holy freckles this thread deteriorated fast, Thorian dude you know i wrote a full wall of text calling you out but then i realized i wanted to only tell you this :
grab a curse and go kill smth with it that knows how to fight back, if its weapons use no cap and it can project to point range your curse is just a slow 350 dps cruiser that has 40k ehp at most. i can actually tell you a vaga is overkill, i will engage any curse fit you want with this ship:

[Vexor Navy Issue, general fit]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Medium Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
Medium Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
Medium Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu
Medium Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu

Medium Transverse Bulkhead II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead II


Imperial Navy Praetor x5


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