Ships & Modules

I think the jag needs a major buff in it having an optimal bonus suggesting artillery yet, being unable to meaningfully fullfill that role at all and being too slow to be heavy tackle. The retribution could use a very small like +5pg bonus so that it can still fit a plate with pulse lasers and an MWD without too many fitting mods and a proper glass cannon beam fit.

Outside of those I feel that the lineup really isn't that bad. Harpies are bordering on OP, Hawks are super strong in small gangs, vengeances too, the wolf is pretty decent in dps for a minmatar ship and fits a solid tank, or can kite okay for a ship so slow. The enyo is very strong as a glass cannon and the ishkur has solid versatility.

We have had lots of sweeping changes to the meta when I think only minor changes should be done or we will just see power creep in response to the new ships.

That said most cruisers in a 1v1 or even 1v2 situaltion will utterly step all over a t3d if you have a decent fit and good skills.

Sounds awfully familiar actually...remember when the Dramial was OP'd and CCP had to lasso that one in? People use to state that even a cruiser could be easily bested by a Dram if flown right, and that dessies and frigs were having an even harder time with it. I remember people in T1 cruisers would say to watch for Dramiels, they are a pain to deal with.

Funny thing is when I ask someone who had flown the Dram for a long time before the nerf how it was afterwards, they said, "Well, it's not as good as it was and harder to get a strong fit squeezed in and some fits don't work like they use to, but it's still strong. It just doesn't feel like cheating anymore is all, which is nice."

I regularly stomp t3ds and even frig gangs in my BC's. But thats because i fit for max application against smaller ships. Because you know... i might only run into 1 BS during a roam, but run across 30 frigs/t3ds. So im willing to gimp just to put t3ds and command dessies in their place when they try to pounce my drake.

Certainly, when you're specially fit to deal with them, then you can do just that. Not everyone flies around specially fit to deal with them though. And that, really, proves the point. If you have to do special fits just do deal with a specific ship class, it may be time to do a balance pass.

So your Jag is as a fast as a Sabre. Cool.

Not everything needs to go 5k/s. Speed creep is bad.

I like the ideas that reduce sig radius and up the PG. Make it tanky and hard to hit.

I think the real moral of this thread is we need to slow or stop power creep in general, I was very much hoping that the new command dessies would have their speeds more in line with their t1 counterparts, but not even close.

I am very much against this speed creep, but, if things were to be fair t1 dessies and AFs would get a mobility buff, but I am worried how that might effect the balance of the game and this is coming from a woman who uses t1 destroyers more than anything else. I get very frustrated when my Corax goes goes 1453 with a MWD and a Moa goes 1560 with an MWD, but keep in mind just how over powered small ships can become when they put out lots of damage and have high mobility.

The Svipul if anything should be seen as something of a cautionary tale, because, unlike the other t3ds the Svipul didn't give up projection for speed, it gets both at the same time, and over buffing the speed on AFs or t1 dessies would result in a similar situation. If the hull got a tracking bonus, and the sharpshooter was the optimal bonus Svipuls would still make excellent alpha ships with GTFO ability, but they wouldn't be nearly as strong as they are now.

If we were to vastly push on the speed of for example Retributions, then they could have similar issues, able to project damage combined with low sig and lots of manuverability, for a pretty low cost, further pushing the game into a small ship meta. The confessor is in a really good spot right now, because in order to really project damage it has to give up speed, close to levels of a t1 destroyer, but it maintains the ability to switch to prop mode and still have it's mobility advantage when necessary, assault frigates don't have modes, so we have to be very, cautious about how we approach them.

How about just when you get podded your pilot is dead... No clone.. No skills.
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