These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Technology Lab

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Hey CCP! Can we have an IGB update?

First post
Author
Stable Cusp
Quintec Wormhole Exploration
#21 - 2015-12-20 12:40:12 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
What do you use the IGB for?


Automagical mapping and mass monitoring wormholes in siggy. Different points in different clients.

I have a website to calculate components for T2/T3 builds that uses IGB javascript to open buy windows.

Checking chat links, without having to right-click, copy, alt-tab, paste, alt-tab.

If you've got a scheme for transparently passing information between the whole ecosystem of OGBs and multiple, distinct clients, please give us a hint. I can see how interactive CREST can do some of those functions, but it seems like some of those would be really awkward. Coordinating three or four clients with three or four OGB windows linked to each account seems unpleasantly more complicated than an IGB. Passing messages from an OGB to the client seems like a massive opportunity for abuse.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#22 - 2015-12-20 20:56:44 UTC
I use it to pop up buy orders from item links as well as to easily see my production business alongside client windows. I would gladly tolerate the javascript quirks in exchange for a sell item popup and update buy/sell popups keyed on asset id. I also play on a single monitor and it would be a hassle to half-screen browser and client.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

BigSako
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-12-21 14:42:41 UTC  |  Edited by: BigSako
SJ Astralana wrote:
I use it to pop up buy orders from item links as well as to easily see my production business alongside client windows. I would gladly tolerate the javascript quirks in exchange for a sell item popup and update buy/sell popups keyed on asset id. I also play on a single monitor and it would be a hassle to half-screen browser and client.


Same here. I have an IGB site where I mainly use the commands to pop up the buy item window. Though I'd love to see (and test, CCP feel free to contact me!) any new mechanic with CREST that allows the same behaviour.


edit: the exact methods I am using are:
CCPEVE.showMarketDetails( ... )
as well as
CCPEVE.buyType( ... )
BigSako
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-12-21 14:47:47 UTC
Stable Cusp wrote:
Passing messages from an OGB to the client seems like a massive opportunity for abuse.


Yes and no. If CCP enables this, they can not claim that someone hacked the game etc...
So if they enable it, they will most likely only have CREST stuff available, which will also slow down some things ...
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#25 - 2015-12-29 19:37:33 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page.


What do you use the IGB for?


Siggy obviously to map whs, to set dedtination to/from entrence and show info on system

Dotlan and other map tools to set destination, add waypoints and show info on sysyems

Dotlan radar to see where i am (tell ui guys to fix map btw, its beauty but not much location awareness available)

Fleetup to open market for specific item and ingame fit screen

Various market tools to open market info on item and show info

ZKillboard links from chat

Adashboard and other intell tools to copy paste stuf from game into page or read others results

Paplinks

Cat pics from chat

UNTILL RECENTLY FOR GDOCS HEAVILY

I think that covers most of my usage



+1 to all of these
Zifrian
The Pannion Domin
Ghostbirds
#26 - 2015-12-29 20:38:55 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page.


What do you use the IGB for?


Siggy obviously to map whs, to set dedtination to/from entrence and show info on system

Dotlan and other map tools to set destination, add waypoints and show info on sysyems

Dotlan radar to see where i am (tell ui guys to fix map btw, its beauty but not much location awareness available)

Fleetup to open market for specific item and ingame fit screen

Various market tools to open market info on item and show info

ZKillboard links from chat

Adashboard and other intell tools to copy paste stuf from game into page or read others results

Paplinks

Cat pics from chat

UNTILL RECENTLY FOR GDOCS HEAVILY

I think that covers most of my usage

Me too on this. I never understood the whole 'CREST will replace the IGB' line. I use it to browse sites in game when I'm in full screen mode. I never understood how crest was going to allow that but gathered that the IGB was more of a link to the data in game instead of a dedicated browser. Then it makes sense to replace it with crest but I don't think you get how nice it is to have in game for just general use. When google docs became available then we really could have spreadsheets in space. It was a huge bonus to so many things.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder

xHjfx
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#27 - 2015-12-29 22:38:59 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page.


What do you use the IGB for?


Siggy obviously to map whs, to set dedtination to/from entrence and show info on system

Dotlan and other map tools to set destination, add waypoints and show info on sysyems

Dotlan radar to see where i am (tell ui guys to fix map btw, its beauty but not much location awareness available)

Fleetup to open market for specific item and ingame fit screen

Various market tools to open market info on item and show info

ZKillboard links from chat

Adashboard and other intell tools to copy paste stuf from game into page or read others results

Paplinks

Cat pics from chat

UNTILL RECENTLY FOR GDOCS HEAVILY

I think that covers most of my usage

Me too on this. I never understood the whole 'CREST will replace the IGB' line. I use it to browse sites in game when I'm in full screen mode. I never understood how crest was going to allow that but gathered that the IGB was more of a link to the data in game instead of a dedicated browser. Then it makes sense to replace it with crest but I don't think you get how nice it is to have in game for just general use. When google docs became available then we really could have spreadsheets in space. It was a huge bonus to so many things.


The IGB provides headers such as the pilots location, name, etc which is what CREST will provide I figure - it won't replace the ability to browse ingame which they want to remove.
Kelath Erebus
Galactic Imperium
#28 - 2015-12-31 17:32:22 UTC
I posted this in another browser related thread. But...

Since you're set on removing the browser app, perhaps replace it with a beacon app. What I mean is, a pilot clicks on the app and can enter a series of URLs perhaps with a status toggle (on/off). Every time a pilot switches systems the beacon app fires a JSON formatted POST to the URLs that are "on".

This would allow for pilots to send the data in the browser header to the websites in a nicely formatted manner, without having to continue to manage the in-game browser in all its modified glory.

This could be expanded down the road, so perhaps specific actions fire off the beacon. I could see this useful for mining, for instance next to the URL in the beacon app there is a "config/settings/options" button. Select that and a modal pops-up providing the pilot the ability to choose what data they want sent to the URL, include additional things that perhaps are already logged locally, like mining data, combat data. It would be infinitely useful to have such data automatically sent to web applications for consumption when they occur.

I would imagine the above would be a lot easier to manage then the full modified web browser, while still providing the pilots of EVE the ability to send live data to web applications and potentially data that isn't already available over time. The possibilities are endless and they wouldn't tax the EVE servers as much I would imagine as if we have to ping the CREST server constantly on combat opps for locational data on fleet activities.

Just my two cents!

Louis Vitton
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2016-01-01 10:00:53 UTC
What your describing with "beacon" is whats called "long polling" or "webSockets".
I personally would prefer CCP to implement webSockets for some things, i believe this should be configured out of game like the API, if not configured it could be tied to crest and require a specific authentication scope in Oauth2, register for the webSocket and then wait for the data to flow..

Here is some information on it.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10028770/html5-websocket-vs-long-polling-vs-ajax-vs-webrtc-vs-server-sent-events
Kelath Erebus
Galactic Imperium
#30 - 2016-01-02 01:54:49 UTC
I don't see EVE creating a special API outside of CREST since that's what they're trying to push and move everything too and I haven't played around with CREST yet to formulate a response. One thing I understand about CREST is like the API it relies on the website to make requests to EVE, so unlike beacon which would be active once the pilot starts EVE, with CREST you'd have to check to see what pilots are online I'd imagine then start pulling the what would have been in the header data or JSON data with beacon. Plus with CREST you're restricted by the number of requests which isn't a problem for small corps, but could be an issue for larger alliances or popular sites providing tools utilizing for multiple corps and alliances.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-01-04 10:39:17 UTC
Kelath Erebus wrote:
I posted this in another browser related thread. But...

Since you're set on removing the browser app, perhaps replace it with a beacon app. What I mean is, a pilot clicks on the app and can enter a series of URLs perhaps with a status toggle (on/off). Every time a pilot switches systems the beacon app fires a JSON formatted POST to the URLs that are "on".

This would allow for pilots to send the data in the browser header to the websites in a nicely formatted manner, without having to continue to manage the in-game browser in all its modified glory.

This could be expanded down the road, so perhaps specific actions fire off the beacon. I could see this useful for mining, for instance next to the URL in the beacon app there is a "config/settings/options" button. Select that and a modal pops-up providing the pilot the ability to choose what data they want sent to the URL, include additional things that perhaps are already logged locally, like mining data, combat data. It would be infinitely useful to have such data automatically sent to web applications for consumption when they occur.

I would imagine the above would be a lot easier to manage then the full modified web browser, while still providing the pilots of EVE the ability to send live data to web applications and potentially data that isn't already available over time. The possibilities are endless and they wouldn't tax the EVE servers as much I would imagine as if we have to ping the CREST server constantly on combat opps for locational data on fleet activities.

Just my two cents!




Dont You worry about taxing on eve servers. Market crest can accept few houndred requests per second per user, so i dont see problem with few thousands requests per second server wide.

Since location CREST is coming anyay I dont see how creating yet another way of comunicating between client and server to be viable.

The plus/downside of CREST is that once you register with your credentials into the app and allow access to certain informations about your character you dont even need to have it opened on your end (think like siggy - where you need it opened for it to work) and it can still work server side, reading Your location every now and then and doind its stuff with it (like siggy with all cor regustered always working without them needing to open it in or out of game to draw a map - you only open it to view the map itself).
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2016-01-04 12:37:53 UTC
CCP Foxfour - I would like to add another point FOR keeping IGB (as a pure browser without build in eve integration like headers and js library - just pure in game browser, with crest to work as actual browser-server communication engine)

Interface-wise IGB is part of eve UI, it can be covered by other windows I open. Any DirectX overlay will be always on top. Especially for "always open apps" (like siggy, where you want them on screen all the time) this will be frustrating as you will need to close/minimize them before doing other stuff.

Right now You can open other EVE window that will simply cover the browser, you can always click on it to bring it back, etc
Kelath Erebus
Galactic Imperium
#33 - 2016-01-04 22:08:10 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:

Dont You worry about taxing on eve servers. Market crest can accept few houndred requests per second per user, so i dont see problem with few thousands requests per second server wide.

Since location CREST is coming anyay I dont see how creating yet another way of comunicating between client and server to be viable.

The plus/downside of CREST is that once you register with your credentials into the app and allow access to certain informations about your character you dont even need to have it opened on your end (think like siggy - where you need it opened for it to work) and it can still work server side, reading Your location every now and then and doind its stuff with it (like siggy with all cor regustered always working without them needing to open it in or out of game to draw a map - you only open it to view the map itself).


Thanks for the informative post Max, I didn't quiet understand how CREST works (which is an issue I'm working on rectifying right now with a few projects), With the way you put it, then yes, I don't see any issue at all with the removal of IGB apart from it being nice to have an in-game browser now and again that is fully integrated with the game UI.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#34 - 2016-01-05 09:34:38 UTC
Hey,

There were some questions about the legality of using an overlay with EVE. Specifically in reference to our EULA apparently disallowing it. I went and asked some people internally for clarification on this and I got an answer back.

For reference:
Quote:
We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time.


Taken from: https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/

In essence you need to read between the lines a little. Our concern with overlays is cheating and botting. Our intention is not to hamper your enjoyment of EVE in any way. The whole point of this is that it gives us the discretion to do what we need to do to try and stop botting and cheating.

With that in mind you should all feel very safe to use overlays, assuming it "simply enhances player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay.”

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2016-01-05 10:49:56 UTC
Kelath Erebus wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:

...


Thanks for the informative post Max, I didn't quiet understand how CREST works (which is an issue I'm working on rectifying right now with a few projects), With the way you put it, then yes, I don't see any issue at all with the removal of IGB apart from it being nice to have an in-game browser now and again that is fully integrated with the game UI.


Emphasis on the most important aspect of IGB removal and why I'm oposing it (Esecially that I am in a single monitor situation without hope of redemption without redesigned layout of my apartament)
Equto
Imperium Technologies
#36 - 2016-01-06 00:48:27 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
Kelath Erebus wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:

...


Thanks for the informative post Max, I didn't quiet understand how CREST works (which is an issue I'm working on rectifying right now with a few projects), With the way you put it, then yes, I don't see any issue at all with the removal of IGB apart from it being nice to have an in-game browser now and again that is fully integrated with the game UI.


Emphasis on the most important aspect of IGB removal and why I'm oposing it (Esecially that I am in a single monitor situation without hope of redemption without redesigned layout of my apartament)


This is my problem as well, Its useful and I don't see the reason for removal other than support. Links are part of the eve culture from kill mails to pictures and stuff. There is little chance an overlay will accurately allow you to view these nicely and while the overlay is up playing the game is difficult.
Kyra Lee
Ixian Machines
#37 - 2016-01-09 06:36:47 UTC
I guess i'll add my opinions in here too! I don't use the igb for nearly as many things as most people in this thread, but I do still use it. The primary reason is because its much easier to use than opening up an out of game browser. I use it to look at pictures, killmails, and dotlan.

I am also involved in the Eve Radio and New Eden Radio communities. One of the first questions new people ask is how do I listen to these things. We have to tell them to open up in an out of game browser, and that usually turns people off from listening. Some find it to much hassle, some say an ogb uses to many resources, and some are playing on one monitor. I would actually like to see MORE functionality for the IGB to be an actual browser. For the radio stations to work would require flash support i think? Being able to watch youtube training videos or live twitch streams would be a really nice benefit. I guess with flash support we could also watch netflix and mine...

Overall the IGB is used for many reasons and is another thing that makes eve unique. I would hate to see it go for any reason.
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-01-11 13:58:10 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP Foxfour - I would like to add another point FOR keeping IGB (as a pure browser without build in eve integration like headers and js library - just pure in game browser, with crest to work as actual browser-server communication engine)

Interface-wise IGB is part of eve UI, it can be covered by other windows I open. Any DirectX overlay will be always on top. Especially for "always open apps" (like siggy, where you want them on screen all the time) this will be frustrating as you will need to close/minimize them before doing other stuff.

Right now You can open other EVE window that will simply cover the browser, you can always click on it to bring it back, etc


This is my biggest concern aswell.
A lot of the webbased third party tools (such as dotlan) work so well because the igb basically integrates them into the eve UI.
Having to use these tools while you play in an out of game browser will be cumbersome for some people. It might even break immersion for some people that play fullscreen with 1 monitor.
Amely Miles
Second Exile
#39 - 2016-01-11 15:55:27 UTC
Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve. Not listening to your clients CCP is why Eve currently has so many issues.

I realise that CCP does not want to deal with it but it makes the lives of its player base easier. I personally use it all the time for loads of things and think that removing it will complicate my life in Eve and ruin my immersion in to the game (Eve is Real). when i need to ALT TAB out of eve to access something it reminds me i have Facebook and email and oh crap i need to clean the house before the wife gets home... as a game company i fail to see how reminding us of the real world all the time is good for your bottom line.?

As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.

I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.

"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2016-01-11 19:09:11 UTC
Amely Miles wrote:
Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve.


Feel free to voice your opinion but saying things like this only hurts your case. When you say this it completely invalidates your case since the majority of users DON'T use the IGB. We have metrics on it, I know how many users open the IGB, how many pages are requested with the IGB, how many times the custom JavaScript hooks are used, etc. The single biggest use of the IGB is leaving it open and letting it refresh for sites like SIggy and Tripwire to track your location in wormholes. Even with that the majority of users do NOT use the IGB. Taking the less than majority and subtracting a substantial portion of that leaves the user base of the IGB at... well not that large at all.

The rest of your points however are far more valid and being kept in mind.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Previous page123Next page