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Combat Refitting Change: PROS, CONS.
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Bobaa Fett
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#1 - 2015-12-30 10:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobaa Fett
+1: This will drastically lessen the time it takes to end a large-scale fleet battle, and force FCs to utilize their capitals more sparringly for the time being, in theory. (I haven't seen the updates for the new triage caps, but it's intriguing.)

Potential -1: Will this potentially harm an option for smaller pvp gangs to engage and win or survive capital escalations against larger gangs, where they were able to do so in the past? (Especially when they had no choice) Will there be new tools available for smaller gangs to adapt to the changes, or will a capital escalation be something small gangs omit entirely as an option faced with these changes, tuck tail and run? Only time will tell.
The small entity toolbox gets smaller and smaller as these upcoming changes are enacted in support of the nullsec-enhancement trend.Though it is a choice to be a small-gang PvP entity, I only hope CCP remembers us as constituents, and ensures our way of playing remains a possibility, not just for our effectiveness potential, but to sustain the true form of the sandbox. Not every player-archetype wants to join the masses or , at the same time we don't always want to be between a rock and a hard place.

On a positive note, as changes happen, small pvp entities love to adapt and overcome, and we've been very creative about it. It's when you take the essential tools we use to face the odds away, that makes us the proverbial red-headed step child of New Eden.
It's not necissarily that bad, I would just like to see more tools in the future that can be utilized to further the effectiveness of a smaller gang. I loved the command destroyers concept, becoming a reality. I hope this thread can spawn more of them.
RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
#2 - 2015-12-30 11:23:23 UTC
Issue is, what do develop as a small group will sooner or later be done by larger groups as well, obviously more efficient (n+1).
We've seen it with Rattles, refitting their Slots to adapt midfight, same for Machas (Neuts, Smartbombs, replace lost drones,...)

It doesn't matter what you do to buff smallscale, largescale will be the copycat and perform better with it.
Hopefully CCP does keep in mind, that there's wspace, if they overpower the FAUX (to compensate lack of pantheonlike tank) it will become unkillable in wspace .... while not beeing able to refit hits us most.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-12-30 11:54:42 UTC
I support the restriction of refitting during pvp combat.

I am however glad that combat refitting will purely for PVP and will not affect PVE in any way (Source: Eve vegas Q&A in the end of Citadel panel, can't find link atm.)
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-12-30 15:23:04 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I support the restriction of refitting during pvp combat.

I am however glad that combat refitting will purely for PVP and will not affect PVE in any way (Source: Eve vegas Q&A in the end of Citadel panel, can't find link atm.)


Seconded. Should've always been that way. How are you suppose to instantly swap equipment when there is incoming fire?
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-12-30 15:45:01 UTC
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I support the restriction of refitting during pvp combat.

I am however glad that combat refitting will purely for PVP and will not affect PVE in any way (Source: Eve vegas Q&A in the end of Citadel panel, can't find link atm.)


Seconded. Should've always been that way. How are you suppose to instantly swap equipment when there is incoming fire?


Exactly.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#6 - 2015-12-30 16:17:34 UTC
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
How are you suppose to instantly swap equipment when there is incoming fire?

Because space magic and this is a game.Big smile
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-12-30 16:25:35 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
How are you suppose to instantly swap equipment when there is incoming fire?

Because space magic and this is a game.Big smile


I always laugh when picturing a crew frantically unbolting a drone damage amplifier so they get the needed space to bolt on an armor hardener...
Eileen Black
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-12-31 09:36:34 UTC
You could always make timers for that - 60s to refit a mod mid-combat might cool down the crews timelines:P
Alexis Nightwish
#9 - 2015-12-31 21:56:59 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I support the restriction of refitting during pvp combat.

I am however glad that combat refitting will purely for PVP and will not affect PVE in any way (Source: Eve vegas Q&A in the end of Citadel panel, can't find link atm.)

Not if you fly a Marauder Sad

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-12-31 22:09:53 UTC
I am a bit sad. One of the big buzzwords throughout EVE's history is "emergent gameplay". The ability to refit on the fly, either off of a capital or mobile depot added an additional element to fights. If someone thinks ahead enough to bring the right modules and can swap out in time they can change the nature of a fight. It seems sad that this ability is being removed on principle.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-01-02 04:55:09 UTC
Pros: It will make me feel better when I get to use it


Cons: it will make me feel much, much worse when I find out that everyone else is better at using it than I am, and that they can and will use it to blow up my ships

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#12 - 2016-01-02 08:53:47 UTC
Doesn't go far enough.

A common tactic these days is to orbit or stay on top of a mobile depot while ratting. Basically, in addition to local, intel, and dscan, as well as all the derivative tools and the security Phoebe gave null ratting, it's just another layer where they can refit multiple stabs and jet even though they were 'caught'. It's too strong as it is, and while I understand there isn't a really good solution, something really needs to be done to add some risk back to null ratting - the changes as I get them only prevent refitting when you have a weapons timer, and ratters generally do not get these. If you could not refit while pointed/scrammed or bubbled, things would be much better.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#13 - 2016-01-02 09:37:21 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Doesn't go far enough.

A common tactic these days is to orbit or stay on top of a mobile depot while ratting. Basically, in addition to local, intel, and dscan, as well as all the derivative tools and the security Phoebe gave null ratting, it's just another layer where they can refit multiple stabs and jet even though they were 'caught'. It's too strong as it is, and while I understand there isn't a really good solution, something really needs to be done to add some risk back to null ratting - the changes as I get them only prevent refitting when you have a weapons timer, and ratters generally do not get these. If you could not refit while pointed/scrammed or bubbled, things would be much better.

Go a step further, can't refit while redboxed (including NPCs).
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#14 - 2016-01-02 10:43:15 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Doesn't go far enough.

A common tactic these days is to orbit or stay on top of a mobile depot while ratting. Basically, in addition to local, intel, and dscan, as well as all the derivative tools and the security Phoebe gave null ratting, it's just another layer where they can refit multiple stabs and jet even though they were 'caught'. It's too strong as it is, and while I understand there isn't a really good solution, something really needs to be done to add some risk back to null ratting - the changes as I get them only prevent refitting when you have a weapons timer, and ratters generally do not get these. If you could not refit while pointed/scrammed or bubbled, things would be much better.

Go a step further, can't refit while redboxed (including NPCs).


Why stop there... why not prevent reshipping in pvp situations using shipmaint bays?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
AgentHawk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-01-06 23:25:01 UTC
why dont we go the other direction and give a new cooldown timer of say, 30 seconds, WHEN you refit

the new timer would disallow you from activating ALL forms of offensive and defensive mods (outgoing) so in short, you cannot remote rep or give energy and you cant fire guns and drones you cannot deploy (im thinking youd need to recall or abandon drones in order to refit c/d? thats not so bad, esp with the existing abandon and reconnect mechanics) as well as the obvious ewar mods you wont be able to use


AgentHawk CSM 15 or whatever we are on
Cyberking11
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2016-01-06 23:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyberking11
AgentHawk wrote:
why dont we go the other direction and give a new cooldown timer of say, 30 seconds, WHEN you refit

the new timer would disallow you from activating ALL forms of offensive and defensive mods (outgoing) so in short, you cannot remote rep or give energy and you cant fire guns and drones you cannot deploy (im thinking youd need to recall or abandon drones in order to refit c/d? thats not so bad, esp with the existing abandon and reconnect mechanics) as well as the obvious ewar mods you wont be able to use


AgentHawk CSM 15 or whatever we are on



imo have newbeans run around the battlefield in a combat resupply rifter which fits fitting lazors and the bean runs around and fits **** to your ship and if he dies gg wp

Some ideas for names:

PaNCAkE - Pocket Newbean Capital reconfigurAtion Expert
TANTRUM - TActical Newbean capiTal ReconfigUration Manager
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#17 - 2016-01-07 01:24:05 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Rawketsled wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Doesn't go far enough.

A common tactic these days is to orbit or stay on top of a mobile depot while ratting. Basically, in addition to local, intel, and dscan, as well as all the derivative tools and the security Phoebe gave null ratting, it's just another layer where they can refit multiple stabs and jet even though they were 'caught'. It's too strong as it is, and while I understand there isn't a really good solution, something really needs to be done to add some risk back to null ratting - the changes as I get them only prevent refitting when you have a weapons timer, and ratters generally do not get these. If you could not refit while pointed/scrammed or bubbled, things would be much better.

Go a step further, can't refit while redboxed (including NPCs).


Why stop there... why not prevent reshipping in pvp situations using shipmaint bays?



Not enough - Why not prevent refitting while logged in?

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-01-07 02:57:25 UTC
AgentHawk wrote:
why dont we go the other direction and give a new cooldown timer of say, 30 seconds, WHEN you refit

the new timer would disallow you from activating ALL forms of offensive and defensive mods (outgoing) so in short, you cannot remote rep or give energy and you cant fire guns and drones you cannot deploy (im thinking youd need to recall or abandon drones in order to refit c/d? thats not so bad, esp with the existing abandon and reconnect mechanics) as well as the obvious ewar mods you wont be able to use


AgentHawk CSM 15 or whatever we are on


Add local defensive modules (hardneers/reppers) to your list and it might work.
Always Shi
t Posting
#19 - 2016-01-07 11:52:11 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
It seems sad that this ability is being removed on principle.


Well you'll be happy to hear that the ability is not being removed, only restricted.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2016-01-07 12:42:37 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I support the restriction of refitting during pvp combat.

I am however glad that combat refitting will purely for PVP and will not affect PVE in any way (Source: Eve vegas Q&A in the end of Citadel panel, can't find link atm.)

Not if you fly a Marauder Sad


It affects Marauders as well? Damnit!
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