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Using Your Log And Messages Window In Order To Cloak ASAP

Author
Adeline Lachance
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-01-05 02:21:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Adeline Lachance
One of the many things I'm struggling with as a new player is how to warp then cloak as quickly as possible after jumping through a gate, particularly after encountering a camp. This seems to be the generally accepted best defense for cloaky, fast-aligning ships unless you're facing something, or the fear of something, that could stall your warp. Doing this optimally is no easy feat.

(1) There is a small and variable delay between the time you initiate Warp To and when the cloak command will be accepted as your automatic gate cloak dissipates.
(2) You cannot spam the cloak key since you will uncloak yourself.
(3) As a bonus, you will fail to cloak if you happen to be within 2,000 meters of an object.

At first I attempted to find a delay time that would work under any conditions. After some practice, a delay of a second or so appeared to fit the bill. Subsequently I noticed it was not uncommon to be able to successfully cloak immediately after Warp To. Because this could be a life saver, I was no longer happy with my current approach. But how could I always cloak as quickly as possible while minimizing the risk of uncloaking myself?

Click on the Neocom Menu (top left corner of your display by default) then select Accessories → Log and Messages. As you jump through a gate, you will see an entry appear along the lines of “Jumping from X to Y.” If you try to cloak too early after warping, it will be followed by one of two messages.

(1) “Interference from the cloaking you are doing is preventing your systems from functioning at this time” (i.e. your gate cloak).
(2) “Your cloaking systems are unable to activate due to your ship being within 2000 meters of X.”

I now always immediately hit the cloak key after Warp To and watch for a message. If one appears, I immediately cloak again. Rinse and repeat.

But what about simply looking for the green, pulsing haze to appear around your cloaking mechanism icon? You can never be sure you waited long enough. If you see a log message you know you must immediately cloak again.

But what about relying on that little pop up window that will appear in the upper middle part of your screen? Fine if you only fail once. Not so fine if you fail twice or more. The first pop up will not close quickly enough, at least with the default settings, in order to distinguish between failures.

I'm sure this is old news to many and has been written about elsewhere. It was a fun discovery for this new player, though. Just thought I'd share in case it helps a colleague over a hump.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#2 - 2016-01-05 02:38:05 UTC
the server runs on a one second tic rate,
this is the hard limit you are limit encountering.

what i find to be the most effective way is to watch the capacitor on your hud with your trigger finger over the cloak.
once the warp command has been registered the cap displayed will drop slightly,
now the cloak will register and assuming you dont screw it up (or get decloaked ) you will be safe.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2016-01-05 02:59:32 UTC
A few thoughts....

- I generally hit the cloak button as soon as I see the text "Warp Drive Active"
While this is not a foolproof method** for activating cloak in a timely manner, it has allowed me to move stuff to and from low-sec relatively unmolested.

- Don't worry too much about the ~1 second delay you experience between gate cloak and activating your ship's cloak.
To achieve a target lock in that time frame requires a combination of...
----- super-high reflexes (it takes about a second or so for someone to register you have just dropped cloak and to hit "ctrl-click")
----- very high scan resolution (see: "locking speed" of a ship)... we are talking about the 1200+ range (most frigates have about 500 to 700).
----- proximity to EVE's server cluster (people close to London, England experience lower latency),
----- and luck.
Most gatecampers don't have access to all those things at exactly the same time.


**NOTE: there is no "foolproof method" for anything in EVE. While some things may come close, there is always a chance that things will go horribly, horribly wrong... no matter how expertly you preform something. So prepare accordingly.
Adeline Lachance
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-01-05 03:17:13 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
the server runs on a one second tic rate,
this is the hard limit you are limit encountering.

what i find to be the most effective way is to watch the capacitor on your hud with your trigger finger over the cloak.
once the warp command has been registered the cap displayed will drop slightly,
now the cloak will register and assuming you dont screw it up (or get decloaked ) you will be safe.


I've read https://www.themittani.com/features/understanding-eve-online-server-tick?nopaging=1 and, assuming it's accurate, am somewhat familiar with how the server tick works, at least in theory. In fact, I pretty much put my faith in it whenever I'm flying something with an align time of less than two seconds.

I wasn't surprised to discover that about a one second pause generally worked well. What surprised me was how often a cloak command issued immediately after a Warp To was accepted. I wonder if there's any practical difference between the two approaches other than personal preference?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-01-05 03:48:59 UTC
There is a lot going on when you are trying to sneak past a gate camp and while hitting your cloak with decent timing pretty much required to survive it is usually the lest of your concerns. Typically getting out of the bubble and warping off without getting decloaked it more of a concern.

So what I recommend to newer players is that they practice the timing of issuing the movement command and then cloaking in the safety of high sec until they have a good feel for it. Once you have that habbit down to where it feels automatic then you can worry about other things when you jump into a bubbled gate camp.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#6 - 2016-01-05 03:56:42 UTC
I love how much research you've obviously done. It really changes the game.

The main rule in #1 don't fly what you can't afford to lose. No matter how perfect your technique lag can always rear it's head.

Also, the reaction time delay isn't as big a deal as one would believe. If one sets the overview up right, any new targets will show on the bottom. In that case, once they hear the gate activate, the inty will start spam clicking the bottom row. Then there are smart bombs.

I played for years and went through hundreds of bubble camps. Last week I lost two BRs. My technique didn't change. Just my luck, and the skill of the camps.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2016-01-05 04:04:52 UTC
On a slightly unrelated note always fire up your prop mod as well, the further from your initial uncloaked spot you get the better.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#8 - 2016-01-05 04:11:45 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:

practice the timing of issuing the movement command and then cloaking in the safety of high sec until they have a good feel for it. Once you have that habbit down to where it feels automatic then you can worry about other things when you jump into a bubbled gate camp.

exactly this.
Adeline Lachance
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-01-05 04:18:30 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
There is a lot going on when you are trying to sneak past a gate camp and while hitting your cloak with decent timing pretty much required to survive it is usually the lest of your concerns. Typically getting out of the bubble and warping off without getting decloaked it more of a concern.

So what I recommend to newer players is that they practice the timing of issuing the movement command and then cloaking in the safety of high sec until they have a good feel for it. Once you have that habbit down to where it feels automatic then you can worry about other things when you jump into a bubbled gate camp.


Understood. I appreciate your response. I'm focusing more on those times where your best strategy is to simply warp out. This would not apply in a bubble unless you're nullified. If you're in something with an align time of less than two seconds, I'm not sure how much more a quick cloak would help. If you're in an Imicus, say, with a 3-4 second align time, it might be a big help.

Going with your bubble scenario, however, where, assuming you're not nullified, you must (1) crash the gate, (2) align+mwd+cloak, or (3) align+cloak+mwd, I think using the logs might be helpful in order to cloak as quickly as possible. I'm not sure if the capacitor approach would be applicable.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-01-05 04:42:56 UTC
Adeline Lachance wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
There is a lot going on when you are trying to sneak past a gate camp and while hitting your cloak with decent timing pretty much required to survive it is usually the lest of your concerns. Typically getting out of the bubble and warping off without getting decloaked it more of a concern.

So what I recommend to newer players is that they practice the timing of issuing the movement command and then cloaking in the safety of high sec until they have a good feel for it. Once you have that habbit down to where it feels automatic then you can worry about other things when you jump into a bubbled gate camp.


Understood. I appreciate your response. I'm focusing more on those times where your best strategy is to simply warp out. This would not apply in a bubble unless you're nullified. If you're in something with an align time of less than two seconds, I'm not sure how much more a quick cloak would help. If you're in an Imicus, say, with a 3-4 second align time, it might be a big help.

Going with your bubble scenario, however, where, assuming you're not nullified, you must (1) crash the gate, (2) align+mwd+cloak, or (3) align+cloak+mwd, I think using the logs might be helpful in order to cloak as quickly as possible. I'm not sure if the capacitor approach would be applicable.

After you cloak you can not MWD unless you uncloak then you are subject to a 30 second timer.

As far as the rest of your comments if you are paying that much attention to just getting your cloak on in enough time you will almost certainly be decloaked before you can get out of the bubble.

Years ago I read a book called "A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code. It is a book about motorcycle road racing but the concept that I will talk about now applies here as well.

In that book he said everyone has a finite amount of attention. So he set it up like a budget. He said something like "say everyone has $10 worth of attention. The first time you go screaming into turn with the throttle pegged it might cost you $9.75 just to find your brake point. To be fast you need to practice repeatedly until hitting your brakes only cost you about $0.25 so that you have $9.75 to spend on other things like your turn in point and hitting the apex correctly and getting back on the throttle at the correct time etc..."

To me it sounds like you are spending about $4 or $5 on turning on your cloak and looking for a way to spend $7 or $8 on it. I am telling you to try and spend about $0.10 on getting your cloak on so that when the **** hits the fan you still have $9.90 worth of attention to spend on other stuff that might keep you in your ship.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Adeline Lachance
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-01-05 05:12:24 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Adeline Lachance wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
There is a lot going on when you are trying to sneak past a gate camp and while hitting your cloak with decent timing pretty much required to survive it is usually the lest of your concerns. Typically getting out of the bubble and warping off without getting decloaked it more of a concern.

So what I recommend to newer players is that they practice the timing of issuing the movement command and then cloaking in the safety of high sec until they have a good feel for it. Once you have that habbit down to where it feels automatic then you can worry about other things when you jump into a bubbled gate camp.


Understood. I appreciate your response. I'm focusing more on those times where your best strategy is to simply warp out. This would not apply in a bubble unless you're nullified. If you're in something with an align time of less than two seconds, I'm not sure how much more a quick cloak would help. If you're in an Imicus, say, with a 3-4 second align time, it might be a big help.

Going with your bubble scenario, however, where, assuming you're not nullified, you must (1) crash the gate, (2) align+mwd+cloak, or (3) align+cloak+mwd, I think using the logs might be helpful in order to cloak as quickly as possible. I'm not sure if the capacitor approach would be applicable.

After you cloak you can not MWD unless you uncloak then you are subject to a 30 second timer.

As far as the rest of your comments if you are paying that much attention to just getting your cloak on in enough time you will almost certainly be decloaked before you can get out of the bubble.

Years ago I read a book called "A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code. It is a book about motorcycle road racing but the concept that I will talk about now applies here as well.

In that book he said everyone has a finite amount of attention. So he set it up like a budget. He said something like "say everyone has $10 worth of attention. The first time you go screaming into turn with the throttle pegged it might cost you $9.75 just to find your brake point. To be fast you need to practice repeatedly until hitting your brakes only cost you about $0.25 so that you have $9.75 to spend on other things like your turn in point and hitting the apex correctly and getting back on the throttle at the correct time etc..."

To me it sounds like you are spending about $4 or $5 on turning on your cloak and looking for a way to spend $7 or $8 on it. I am telling you to try and spend about $0.10 on getting your cloak on so that when the **** hits the fan you still have $9.90 worth of attention to spend on other stuff that might keep you in your ship.


"After you cloak you can not MWD unless you uncloak then you are subject to a 30 second timer."

That's interesting because my understanding is that using an Improved or Covert Ops Cloaking Device (not Prototype) you have a short window in which you can pulse your MWD once. I've actually done it myself using both. Also, the recloak timer varies. In an Astero, it's 15 seconds. In a Helios, it's 5 seconds. Maybe you're referring to some sort of circumstance I have yet to encounter?

"As far as the rest of your comments if you are paying that much attention to just getting your cloak on in enough time you will almost certainly be decloaked before you can get out of the bubble."

I'm paying much attention here, in this forum, precisely so that I do not have to pay much attention to it in game.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#12 - 2016-01-05 06:22:33 UTC
Adeline Lachance wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Adeline Lachance wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
There is a lot going on when you are trying to sneak past a gate camp and while hitting your cloak with decent timing pretty much required to survive it is usually the lest of your concerns. Typically getting out of the bubble and warping off without getting decloaked it more of a concern.

So what I recommend to newer players is that they practice the timing of issuing the movement command and then cloaking in the safety of high sec until they have a good feel for it. Once you have that habbit down to where it feels automatic then you can worry about other things when you jump into a bubbled gate camp.


Understood. I appreciate your response. I'm focusing more on those times where your best strategy is to simply warp out. This would not apply in a bubble unless you're nullified. If you're in something with an align time of less than two seconds, I'm not sure how much more a quick cloak would help. If you're in an Imicus, say, with a 3-4 second align time, it might be a big help.

Going with your bubble scenario, however, where, assuming you're not nullified, you must (1) crash the gate, (2) align+mwd+cloak, or (3) align+cloak+mwd, I think using the logs might be helpful in order to cloak as quickly as possible. I'm not sure if the capacitor approach would be applicable.

After you cloak you can not MWD unless you uncloak then you are subject to a 30 second timer.

As far as the rest of your comments if you are paying that much attention to just getting your cloak on in enough time you will almost certainly be decloaked before you can get out of the bubble.

Years ago I read a book called "A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code. It is a book about motorcycle road racing but the concept that I will talk about now applies here as well.

In that book he said everyone has a finite amount of attention. So he set it up like a budget. He said something like "say everyone has $10 worth of attention. The first time you go screaming into turn with the throttle pegged it might cost you $9.75 just to find your brake point. To be fast you need to practice repeatedly until hitting your brakes only cost you about $0.25 so that you have $9.75 to spend on other things like your turn in point and hitting the apex correctly and getting back on the throttle at the correct time etc..."

To me it sounds like you are spending about $4 or $5 on turning on your cloak and looking for a way to spend $7 or $8 on it. I am telling you to try and spend about $0.10 on getting your cloak on so that when the **** hits the fan you still have $9.90 worth of attention to spend on other stuff that might keep you in your ship.


"After you cloak you can not MWD unless you uncloak then you are subject to a 30 second timer."

That's interesting because my understanding is that using an Improved or Covert Ops Cloaking Device (not Prototype) you have a short window in which you can pulse your MWD once. I've actually done it myself using both. Also, the recloak timer varies. In an Astero, it's 15 seconds. In a Helios, it's 5 seconds. Maybe you're referring to some sort of circumstance I have yet to encounter?

"As far as the rest of your comments if you are paying that much attention to just getting your cloak on in enough time you will almost certainly be decloaked before you can get out of the bubble."

I'm paying much attention here, in this forum, precisely so that I do not have to pay much attention to it in game.


Indeed, you can activate any mod within one second (server tick) of cloaking and it will run for one cycle. The most common use of this is the cloak+mwd trick, but activating your damage control can also be useful just in case something horrible happens. This works for any type of cloak.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-01-05 09:36:43 UTC
Your theory is right. In low you generally can rely on warp+cov.cloak (I was killed once in a bomber in 2 years because of object proximity), or align+imp.cloak+mwd+decloak+warp in case you fly a non-covops ship with improved cloak (a bit less safe because you stay longer in hostile area). The instawarp with <2s align is also very reliable, got yellowboxed a dozen times but didn't lose a ship yet. With some T3Ds you can do the mode swap trick (warp+prop -> defense) to get instawarp, I lost two Svipuls because of messing this up. In any other case your best bet will likely be a gate crash (if you have an MWD and decent align time).

I'm my own NPC alt.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2016-01-05 12:10:46 UTC
Adeline Lachance wrote:

"After you cloak you can not MWD unless you uncloak then you are subject to a 30 second timer."

That's interesting because my understanding is that using an Improved or Covert Ops Cloaking Device (not Prototype) you have a short window in which you can pulse your MWD once. I've actually done it myself using both.



Trevor Dalech wrote:

Indeed, you can activate any mod within one second (server tick) of cloaking and it will run for one cycle.

This was news to me. I just tried it and saw it work. I learned something new today.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#15 - 2016-01-05 14:12:05 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:


Trevor Dalech wrote:

Indeed, you can activate any mod within one second (server tick) of cloaking and it will run for one cycle.

This was news to me. I just tried it and saw it work. I learned something new today.

you do realise this is how the mwd-cloak trick works right?Blink
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#16 - 2016-01-05 17:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
You seem like a good problem solver. Using the log is a smart idea! I do hope you get involved with a good corp and stick around. Most people tire of playing by themselves pretty quickly (even if the activities you enjoy are primarily solo, it's still nice to have people to talk to and bounce ideas off of).

ergherhdfgh wrote:
Trevor Dalech wrote:

Indeed, you can activate any mod within one second (server tick) of cloaking and it will run for one cycle.

This was news to me. I just tried it and saw it work. I learned something new today.

I once got my probe launcher to reload while cloaked this way. Craaaaazy. Big smile

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#17 - 2016-01-05 17:55:33 UTC
op , because i like you (and you seem the sort that would get a kick out of this)
here is a cookie.

set some time aside, grab a beer and enjoy Blink
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#18 - 2016-01-05 18:21:37 UTC
I suggest getting to know the keyboard shortcuts. I hate using the mouse in any game, and EVE is no exception. I have my modules remapped to keys 1-5 for high slots, shift 1-5 for mids, control 1-5 for low. Also set one overview tab with only planets/the sun.

Let's say my MWD is in slot 1, cloak is slot 2

So you warp through the gate:

Click on a planet

hit 'A' to align, then immediately hit 1, 2 to activate your MWD and cloak (any cloak other than a prototype cloaking device works). when your MWD is at the end of the cycle, hit '2' to decloak and spam the 'D' key, and you will warp instantly.

Not that different than what anyone else here said, but remapping hotkeys to your comfort and learning keyboard shortcuts helps a lot (in my opinion).

I also check d-scan to see if there are any active POSes in system (that I could accidentally land on), and if there aren't, warp to a moon instead of a planet, so if they try to follow me to the planet I still get away. If you're in a bubbled camp, immediately change direction to another planet after cloaking, as it's not too hard to see where someone aligned and get decloak them

Something to think about is installing singularity (the test server). Every item is seeded dirt cheap, and you could ask someone to try to catch you over and over going through gates until you get the timing right
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#19 - 2016-01-05 18:24:02 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Something to think about is installing singularity (the test server). Every item is seeded dirt cheap, and you could ask someone to try to catch you over and over going through gates until you get the timing right

I would suggest rather to practice with a corpmate (ah they have uses!) in highsec. The test server often has weird lag going through gates which doesn't exist in tranquility.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#20 - 2016-01-05 18:26:06 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
I would suggest rather to practice with a corpmate (ah they have uses!) in highsec. The test server often has weird lag going through gates which doesn't exist in tranquility.


Really? I've never noticed, but admittedly I've never used SiSi for testing getting off gates. It's just my go-to response to test anything...

Ignore what I said about singularity and listen to Cara, Adeline
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