EVE General Discussion

hello this ship is the best at the moment on zkilloard

https://zkillboard.com/ship/34562/

so is there any nerf planed that will happen to this ship
thanks .

CCP decided that they lacked the knowledge to balance it so they appointed a focus group of "wise men" (lol) to try and solve the problem. That in itself is already hilarious but given how CCP implemented them in the first place (even though community went "CCP plz stahp") and then finally realised it was silly and thus"nerfed" it by a small amount to not "overdo it" (while the community went "CCP plz don't stahp") it couldn't get any worse.

I'm fairly sure that it will lead to nothing remarkable because I doubt that they will (want to) make the choices required. The solution to balancing them isn't very difficult but it requires people to think outside the box and not try to keep their joyous toys "fun" (and by that they mean OP).

http://recklessabandoneve.blogspot.fr/2015/10/re-balancing-svipul.html

sorry i hit quote instead of edit , due to late time lol

And yet the Gila got nerfed out of nowhere.

Hopefully they will nerf how it looks too as in ctrlA delete all,make new ship.

There seems to be a general consensus among players that it needs to be nerfed, I even see people on other non-EVE focused gaming message boards complaining about it. I think it will definitley be hit by the nerf bat at some point in the future.

Yep and add the Command Destroyers (or specifically the MJFG) to that also.

At least while people are still adjusting, they are massively OP.


Yeah, can't disagree. It didn't happen in the Tactical Destroyers group, though Asher was fairly ciritical that all the members were solo/small gang/alliance tournament and pvp focuseed (there were 2 pve focussed members also) and that the group was missing block level fleet experience (eg. Goons use the Jackdaw pretty well).

That was a fair criticism I think and nothing is going to be a magic pill, though the players weren't the balancers/designers. Just a focus group for feedback on ideas and experience. The same that many companies use focus groups, not to design anything, just to react and from those reactions, the designers have access to more information.


I don't personally think that will be the outcome.

I suspect that the end result will be more specialization, where bonuses are shifted away from base stats and more into the individual modes so that good pilots, able to capitalize on switching modes and really actively piloting (which CCP seem to be very in favour of and against F1 monkey pvp), gain advantage from their skill, while less skilled pilots will still be bad (ie. the ship won't make poor pilots look good).

That's just my feeling on the final outcome, but we'll see.

It's not about individual balancing, it's about looking at the concept of a ship class and game mechanics in general. As I see it 3 things need to happen:


- oversized prop mods need to go. Just as we did a decade ago when we removed multiple prop mods and later on the nerf of the first nano age, it needs to be stopped. Give a ship an oversized prop and suddenly it starts to mess up the game mechanics and balance in ways that are silly, fitting one doesn't make one a l337 PVPer or somehow better. They need to go, not by changing fitting requirements but just by arbitrarily not allowing them to be fitted in the first place. This will solve many balancing issues we have with certain ships atm.

- increase the mode cycle time dramatically to a point where making a choice also means you better made sure it's not going to bite you in the ass. How much it should be depends (I'm thinking 30 seconds) but choices like these should have possible repercussions. Right now it's too easy and silly.

- The bonuses the T3D get don't stick to EVE's idea of choices and consequences, right now they are exactly that: bonuses. As I see it we need to have 4 modes, a basic one where the normal ship stats apply (and this is where the individual balancing needs to happen) and then the option of engaging the 3 modes. But more than just bonuses they should also come with penalties, that way choosing a mode becomes conscious choice where you have to make sure you don't mess up. The type and severity of the penalties are of course up for discussion and balancing but here's some examples

* defense mode might drop overall damage output or perhaps increase sig radius (not decrease as some get) so that cruisers can actually hurt these ships and that they don't become "great against everything". Choices > consequences

* propulsion mode might drop damage application (tracking/explosion radius) so that this mode moves away a bit from the "kiting lol" silliness where it would still work well vs cruisers and up but not so well vs frigs or dessies. Choices > consequences

* sharpshooter mode, increase its range capability (and actually give svipul range) but make it a siege mode where they can't move. That way it may become a tactical choice for fleet to use it but it could also create a massive problem


These are just examples and there should be slightly different ones per faction to retain their faction's identity but there needs to be harsh penalties to allow for good bonuses, otherwise it's not a choice to use a mode but it's bloody obvious to use them. It shouldn't be that way.

Asuch as I love slapping a 100mn AB on cruiser sized things for PVE, I have to agree. It does mess up the game mechanics (in PVP and and AI in PVE).

Take an Ishtar or VNI and put a 10mn on it for a ratting/PVE fit and your heavy drones get eaten by npcs. Change NOTHING on the fit but the size of the AB (upwards to a 100mn) and all of a sudden those same NPCs forget you had heavy drones? WTF?

I've killed things like sabres and interceptors with my ratting VNIs by just aligning to something different after they pointed me while Turning the AB off then back on (it screws up the smaller ships orbit, sometimes making them stop cold while they change direction, letting your tracking bonused Heavy Drones one shot them). Yes it's cool to watch an isk making ship kill a hunting ship with drones that should have a hard time hitting smaller ships, that doesn't make it not be unbalanced as all hell lol.

And yet they put a focus group in charge of T3D discussion comprised of players.

Besides, balancing is not developing. We aren't writing code. We're working at the top level of a finished product to help polish the chrome and you're sitting there all, "WTF SINCE WHEN DID DRIVERS BECOME MECHANICAL ENGINEERS?!!" Sorry if we just want the damn car to drive straight. No idea how you like your cars to drive.



All good ideas. I'm an avid user of over-sized prop mods, but I wouldn't cry to see them go. I understand how they drastically skew game mechanics that were designed without their use in mind. And anything to bring T3Ds down a notch is absolutely welcome. The way I see it, if you nerf T3Ds until the current Jackdaw looks OP, then you have it right.