Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hi,

I am a new player to EvE online and I do not claim to be an expert in her by any means. I have however read extensively on many topics both before and after I started playing the game. I recently read a posted blog by James 315 and wrote to CCP customer support about it for some feedback. They recommended several things. One of which was to post on the forums here as CCP weights the posts here heavily. I will re-post my e-mail here to save time and thanks.



Dec 29, 09:40

Dear CCP,

I read an article recently from a player called James 315 which you can find here https://www.themittani.com/features/why-risk-free-highsec-would-kill-eve-online (https://www.themittani.com/features/why-risk-free-highsec-would-kill-eve-online) Anyway, I finished his article and was intrigued as to weather James 315 was indeed speaking the truth of it all. Now I have no idea if the Mackinaw's still have the buffs he speaks of in the article or not, since I been playing the game for only about a month at this point. I can however tell you thought looking at the market and eve-central that it looks like he is right when it comes to the risk / reward for high-sec vs other security space in that there seems to be no reason to mine in anything but Hi-sec space. If miners can mine in Hi-sec for a certain amount of ISK and its only say 10% better in Low / Null sec for the same minerals & ore then they will flood Hi-sec. I agree with James 315 in that the action follows the miners. They are the start of all things PVE in EVE (Mining and manufacturing) but they are also the life blood of PvP in EVE ( Things hunt them) and without them in the other security space their is nothing to hunt. Since their is nothing to hunt their is nothing to defend for us mercenaries as well. So my question, like that of James 315 is why are you not buffing the resources in low / null sec and getting the miners to go there again ? Seems like what we all need to me.

Thanks,
Don Sheppard
AKA Cora En Daire
The Gallente Foreign Legion



As far as I can tell in the time that I have been playing the game, it seems that the economy would benefit from getting the Miners that have made enough money in Hi-sec to go to low sec. Why because as James stated in his work the miners are the basis for everything in EvE. Get them to want to risk going into Low / Null sec or W-Space and everything else will eventually follow. To do this I sugest the following:

1) Make ore and any other resource in low sec 300% or more profitable for miners. Why ? Because the miners will wanna go there but they can't just always ninja mine it that gets old. They will need it to be profitable enough to pay other people or corps to protect them and still make money hand over fist if they make it back.

2) Implement game mechanics that reward a miner who is not AFK or a bot. Why because bots destroy MMO's , it does not matter which MMO or what type of MMO it is. Make a mini game for miners to get better yeild ? I don't really have a definite answer here but I think this is important. You know the saying " You may not care about PvP but it cares about you " :P

EvE online is a PvP game. Pure and simple. The PvE aspects fuel the PvP in the form of mining, transport, and exploration and if this is not extremely profitable to do in the PVP areas then like James 315 says in his article, you lose what is giving you the edge and what makes EvE special in the first place.

If you go here and order by ISK and then glance at where the ores are found:

http://ore.cerlestes.de/#site:ore

You'll see that following a recent change in mineral use, nullsec ores are the most valuable, followed by lowsec and then highsec are least valuable.

Mercoxit is at about the 300% mark you suggest.

Currently things seem to be ok. It's not value of ores that stops more miners going to lowsec and nullsec.

It has traditionally been that most industry happens in highsec, so it's easier to access markets without hauling; and it's safer for small groups/individuals to mine in highsec in general (nullsec can be safe with the right precautions).

Goddamn you all for making me read something by James 315 the biggest and most bloated self-important gasbag to have ever been crapped out of a human birth canal.

Edit--Sorry: I tried, but holy ******* **** on a stick, can somebody tell James 315 that ******* brevity is the soul of wit? He might have a good point, but he is so goddamn in love with himself and his own voice and even his written word...he just can't get to the ******* point.

Good posts, but I wanted to comment on this part.

If low sec was made 300% more profitable, it would remain 300% more profitable as the prices dropped.
It would also likely bring the prices of everything down, so you're still buying the same amount of stuff.

Problem is, it would still require the same amount of grinding in order to get the stuff, even though it's technically cheaper.

My proposal would be to actually reduce production costs of ships, thus reducing costs, which make the... loss averse.... less attached to their ships..

That and/or increase insurance payouts (especially on t2 ships).
With these two things combined, players might actually want to risk bigger ships, and t2 ships, creating less loss averse players and increasing the fun in low/null while people would also complain less about the risks within high sec.

When you feel like you spend all your time grinding to earn something, you develop a sense of attachment to those items.. This is where the risk and loss aversion stems from...

You can easily mine outside of HS safely already, assuming you're not AFK.

The issue isn't payout, the issue is 90% of industrial minded people are terrified of ANY risk, and refuse to turn off netflix when doing what they do. No amount of payout will change that.

Jumping right to personal attacks and insults? Calm down tiger mom. As you get older you'll realize personal attacks aren't the best way to start a conversation.

I have talked to many, many miners who are simply afraid of anything other than HS. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Not everyone wants to d-scan, not everyone wants to check names against KBs while they mine, etc. 90% was obviously a number pulled out of my ass (most people aren't pedantic enough to focus on a number instead of the broader point being discussed). That point is that many, many miners don't want to deal with the risk of being outside of HS (whether they are afraid of being ganked when taking a ****, they want to watch netflix and are afraid of being ganked when watching a movie, etc.) No bigger payout from ore will change that. That was my point. And again, there's nothing wrong with that. When I want a more relaxed playstyle I go back to HS and mine myself.

Ore mining is a very laid back play style, and by its nature unless you are in HS, with a degree of security through CONCORD or in sov null with the safety of intel channels, people simply aren't going to risk LS, even with higher ore payouts. Do you want to discuss that point instead of making baseless assumptions and reading way too much into a simple post?

And ironically, make sure you spell everything correctly yourself before using spelling and grammar as a way to use ad hominem in a forum thread.

Are you this combative when holding innocent conversations in real life? Grab a drink and calm down a bit. You must be a blast at parties. I thought people only trolled like you are with NPC alts.

(pro tip, I'm talking about the words you actually misspelled, not the obvious redicuouls ones)

So you focus on being pedantic while avoiding talking about the issue itself, then start trolling when someone calls you out on that? Cool cool man. An inspiration, really.

To the OP:

Congrats on starting your Eve career by studying the teachings of the Savior of Highsec. Eventually everyone gets to understand the requirements of the Code but many do this only after losing a Retriever or six.

I will have to agree with a number of the follow on posters though where they point out the futility of expecting CCP to actually incentivize miners with the riches of lowsec and null. Miners ARE greatly motivated by ISK but their fears of loss heavily outweigh their desire for gain. Travel anywhere in New Order territory (systems with sec status between .5 and 1.0) and you will see legions of Procurers and Skiffs. Miners permanently nerf their productivity against the chance that an Agent of the New Order may come along for a surprise permit check. You cannot persuade a prey animal, already shaking in fear, with the logic you expect them to respond to. They just cannot go there.

But there IS good news.

The miners are screwed anyway.

By choosing the lowest form of productive life in Eve, both in terms of Isk Per Hour and in terms of self respect they doom themselves to a short and pointless Eve career. Although some particularly cowardly and adrenaline intolerant persons do manage to play for years while mining in NPC corps most normal gamers do one of two, sensible things.

1) They quit what, for them, has got to be the most mind numbing, stupid and urge-to -live destroying game outside of killing pigs as a level 1 WoW player OR

2) They go shoot somebody in the face and get on with enjoying Eve.

So, you get the New Order. We save highsec (and the highsec miners) by killing them. After a while even the most stubborn, (shall I say it? Yes, I shall) the most stubborn bot-aspirant is brought to understand their true position in the Eve food chain. Which is the bottom of course. And like all good plankton they exist to be eaten.

I am sure James appreciates your efforts to persuade CCP to do something to help the miners become better players. But if James 315 hasn't been able to get them to blast highsec back to the days when 50,000 accounts were logged in then I don't expect you to be any more successful.

Highsec WILL be saved. But its the players who will save it. Stop talking to CCP. Go shoot a miner.

You're not my real father!