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Warp Core Stabilizer nerf

Author
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#21 - 2015-12-24 17:05:33 UTC
So you were hunting farmers,
and one got away,
and it made you SO MAD,
you posted about it?
Ashwind Houssa
Therapists Inc
#22 - 2015-12-24 19:26:38 UTC
Ace Lapointe wrote:
Ashwind Houssa wrote:
WCS don't make you immune to all but two or three ships.

You can fit plenty of ships with triple scrams and chase stabbed farmers all day. Makes you pretty gimped for real rights, but it is certainly possible.

And yes, this is a whine thread. You are complaining about a non issue.


Was referring to ships that either get A, multiple long range points, or things like the Navy Maulus, with the Scram bonus, to catch farmers, who normally sit off the beacon a fair ways, you need a fast ship, that can fit enough Scrams to counter Farmers, and Punishers, have a lot of Low Slots, and I have seen them in almost every bloody Complex since the change, so I am correct, there are only a few ships that can reliably catch these things, such as Tri-Scram MWD Captors, Maulus Navies, and things that have enough mids to fit enough Points.

WCS's should be removed from the game, or at the very least have their drawbacks increased, reason? Being a wimp, Transports and Industrials should be the only ships capable of fitting one.


OK, lets break this down.

On the one hand, your opponent, who wants to farm and not fight, severely gimps their fit, such that they are essentially incapable of pvp.

You are so upset about this, that instead of fitting a triple scram hookbill, you want the module removed.

How is this not a crybaby scrub thread?
Adrienne Cesaille
Deflagration
#23 - 2015-12-28 06:53:06 UTC
Ace Lapointe wrote:
Ashwind Houssa wrote:
WCS don't make you immune to all but two or three ships.

You can fit plenty of ships with triple scrams and chase stabbed farmers all day. Makes you pretty gimped for real rights, but it is certainly possible.

And yes, this is a whine thread. You are complaining about a non issue.


Was referring to ships that either get A, multiple long range points, or things like the Navy Maulus, with the Scram bonus, to catch farmers, who normally sit off the beacon a fair ways, you need a fast ship, that can fit enough Scrams to counter Farmers, and Punishers, have a lot of Low Slots, and I have seen them in almost every bloody Complex since the change, so I am correct, there are only a few ships that can reliably catch these things, such as Tri-Scram MWD Captors, Maulus Navies, and things that have enough mids to fit enough Points.

WCS's should be removed from the game, or at the very least have their drawbacks increased, reason? Being a wimp, Transports and Industrials should be the only ships capable of fitting one.


Interesting.. Farmers fitting WCS to their ships to avoid being ganked is being a wimp.. but killing PVE fitted ships isn't, hypocritical much?
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#24 - 2015-12-28 08:07:05 UTC
You should understand the way how these stabbed farmer showed up.
There were none stabbed farmers.
Then some smarty pants points out the problem (PvP junkies), which prevents him from cashing out plexes.
Then he finds a solution.
Then he spills the secret, mostly because of e-peen issues.
Then, if ti's proven to be effective, stuff becomes "meta".

You CAN fight with any instance of meta. Deal is, you CAN'T fight the meta machine.
You kill WCS? Old stocks of Banthams with meta 1 guns and t1 drone — and you got distinctive green KM entry that as dull as killing empty autopiloting industrial via killright.
You kill Banthams? There are 19 more options for wallet tanking.
You buff sites so no frigates can clear them, despite novice plexes intended for newcomers? They'll just do it like they do on Lowratting channel.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#25 - 2015-12-28 09:30:29 UTC
BAJRAN BALI wrote:
In faction warfare and PVP in general warp core stabilizers can be an issue and I would like to propose a tweak to them. As it stands now they have some serious drawbacks to combat, but we still see pilots using them in combat situations.

Lets take the "Warp Core Stabilizer I" for example. It has 50% reduction to max targeting range and 50% hit to scan resolution while adding +1 to warp core strength. On a combat ship these are not the kind of bonuses you want to see,but IMHO not enough to deter pilots from using them in combat situations. Now with industrial ships or hauling ships I see real reason to fit such mods on. Industrial ships are not intended to be combat ships and I feel that the added warp core strength of warp core stabs outweigh the negatives.

The change I'm suggesting to warp core stabilizers is to treat them like polarized weaponry on combat ships. Adding the negative of having 0% resistance to a combat ship due to the warp stab being fit should be enough of a deterrent for pilots. I would give industrial ships immunity to the 0% resistance would keep them viable for hauling ships and industrial ships.

Warp core stabs need some nerf to deter them from being used as often in combat. All too often in faction warfare space we see pilots offensively and defensively running complexes with stabs. If a pilots wants to fit warp core stabs to their ship their combat capabilities should be greatly reduced.

Thank you

-BB


Warp core stabs are supposed to help you survive. Setting resists to 0% while using them makes no sense whatsoever from design standpoint. Just no.
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#26 - 2015-12-28 10:17:52 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Warp core stabs are supposed to help you survive. Setting resists to 0% while using them makes no sense whatsoever from design standpoint. Just no.


Also, I'd love to understand how stabilized warp field gives nothing to ability to go faster into that field or move faster in this field. In fact, I'd love to see this, would give blitzers some painfull toys. Miners got "supergimping" higgs anchor, why not give something else?
Algathas
Swamp Panthers
SONS of BANE
#27 - 2015-12-29 03:34:20 UTC
I like warp core stabs. People think they will be saved by them in null and die horribly in bubbles.
Redloc
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#28 - 2015-12-29 04:01:39 UTC
Let me sum this up to you in a quote I heard once during my tenure with WotC:


"Don't support a mechanic that encourages people not to play".

Sephiroth CloneIIV
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2015-12-29 20:40:40 UTC
not supported.

Plenty of things that help with catching and this is the one that hinders it with good drawback. The drawback is non-existant on ships that don't have guns, which is balancing.

Interceptors bubbles etc etc,. Also a sizeable fleet has a realy strong chance of killing a industrial no matter how I fit.

The game is to be hard in many ways, not just tilted to gankers.

To be honest unless you fit your ship to be safe in a dangerous spot you dead. And even then no garentee.

A key thing forgotten here is that it increases warp strength, so, fit more warp scrams, two of them can nullify 4.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2015-12-30 06:33:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
You already have what you are asking for, just not to that degree: ships with WCS have reduced EHP due to not using tank mods instead.

This is especially true when it comes to non-combat ships since there are less options for their low fittings that are useful.
ivona fly
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#31 - 2015-12-30 12:04:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ivona fly
Atomeon wrote:
You state that you cant catch a defendless ship and you want changes to make him naked?

If you want to kill an industrial ship with WCSs then use 2 or even 3 scrams, depends on their fit.
To kill a FW farmer Loyd already told you a great solution to your problem.

If have a problem with the solutions we posted then ... you have a problem.



I don't think that is what he is saying, he thinks they should be viable on defenseless ships like industrials and travel fits, but not for combat.


What i would do though is make them give you a +inertia / acceleration nerf or something so you put them on you can't warp out as fast, and make haulers immune from the drawback, so people can still use them in lowsec goods running.

This would mean while you can prevent somebody catching you in a normal ship in Faction warfare or lowsec gate, but a specific hunting fit
(DUAL SCRAM frigate) or Navy Maulus is potentially more dangerous to you, so you have a trade off like:

yeah I don't want to get scrammed by a random single l33t pvp dude when i am whoring LP, but if i fit too many ill take so long to warp off, that another ship may land and stack enough points to stop me warping, also if i see navy maulus on scan i better start warping ASAP.


Increasing the lock time on Combat Frigate that does not want to fight is no drawback i think that is the point.

This may also prevent what I think I have seen, is dplexing bots.
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#32 - 2015-12-30 12:48:16 UTC
ivona fly wrote:

What i would do though is make them give you a +inertia / acceleration nerf or something so you put them on you can't warp out as fast, and make haulers immune from the drawback, so people can still use them in lowsec goods running.

Admit it, you just want to sell your batches of higgs anchors and cash out your long range ammo.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#33 - 2015-12-30 13:46:44 UTC
BAJRAN BALI wrote:
Warp core stabs need some nerf to deter them from being used as often in combat. All too often in faction warfare space we see pilots offensively and defensively running complexes with stabs. If a pilots wants to fit warp core stabs to their ship their combat capabilities should be greatly reduced.

Thank you

-BB
They already had that nerf and their capabilities were greatly reduced. You failing and getting upset, doesn't mean another nerf is required.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#34 - 2015-12-30 18:18:02 UTC
Just some thoughts.
WCS are not the problem, attitudes and entitlement are the problem.

Battles in space are about winning, when applied to a FW plex farmer "winning" is getting away from you.
If he uses WCS and gets away from you then he has won, if you have countered his play properly and kill him then you have won. This is as it should be in this game.

Based on your OP idea and your comments since you want to change the rules so that you can fit however you want and still be able to catch and hold that FW plex farmer and that is not how this game works. In fact that is pure entitlement speaking, I caught you out running plexes therefore I deserve to kill you.

So in the end I will use a phrase that PvP players love to heap onto the PvE crowd, adapt or get out.
Or perhaps adapt or do not get the kills is more appropriate here.
ivona fly
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#35 - 2015-12-30 18:58:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ivona fly
Donnachadh wrote:
Just some thoughts.
WCS are not the problem, attitudes and entitlement are the problem.

Battles in space are about winning, when applied to a FW plex farmer "winning" is getting away from you.
If he uses WCS and gets away from you then he has won, if you have countered his play properly and kill him then you have won. This is as it should be in this game.

Based on your OP idea and your comments since you want to change the rules so that you can fit however you want and still be able to catch and hold that FW plex farmer and that is not how this game works. In fact that is pure entitlement speaking, I caught you out running plexes therefore I deserve to kill you.

So in the end I will use a phrase that PvP players love to heap onto the PvE crowd, adapt or get out.
Or perhaps adapt or do not get the kills is more appropriate here.



How many scrams do you need to even hold a Farmer in a Punisher with all them lows? And how much would you have to gimp a fit to scram it unless you only flew the navy frigate that has a bonus.

I am pretty sure that you would need to hull tank a shield ship or something and fit what 3 scrams on the off chance you just might catch them unaligned, otherwise you have to just chase them out in circlejerk until one side gets bored so the system does not get plexed up / down, and then not get caught by something with a scram + web Big smile as your ship is too gimped to fight it.
Paranoid Loyd
#36 - 2015-12-30 19:12:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Why should you not have to specialize your fit to catch someone who has specialized theirs?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#37 - 2015-12-30 19:18:21 UTC
The stabbed farmer is in it for the LP. Regardless if you kill him or not, if you drive him out of the plexes before he finishes them, then he loses. Killing the ship doesn't hurt them if you leave the system and he is able to come back and finish his farming activities. He will recoup his loss rather quickly with just one novice plex.

How do you win at war? You defeat the enemy's will to fight. Keep chasing around a farmer and cause them not to do their activity, and you will break their will. Of course, this will take some effort on your part, and most pvpers won't go through all that effort.

The harder the hunt, the better the kill.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#38 - 2015-12-31 00:03:35 UTC
ivona fly wrote:
How many scrams do you need to even hold a Farmer in a Punisher with all them lows? And how much would you have to gimp a fit to scram it unless you only flew the navy frigate that has a bonus.

I am pretty sure that you would need to hull tank a shield ship or something and fit what 3 scrams on the off chance you just might catch them unaligned, otherwise you have to just chase them out in circlejerk until one side gets bored so the system does not get plexed up / down, and then not get caught by something with a scram + web Big smile as your ship is too gimped to fight it.

At max the Punisher can fit 4 points in warp core stability since it has 4 low slots.
Given that you need 1 point more scramble or disruption than they have stability you would need 3 low slots and a proper selection of modules but you would be guaranteed to hold them, at least till you died trying. Staying with the Punisher on both sides of the battle that would give you as the attacker 1 extra low slot to do something with. If the ship you choose to fly does not have enough low slots to handle the task at hand then you have made a poor choice, but again that is not a problem with the module that is a problem with your choice of ships or a problem with your expectations.

As Paranoid Lloyd puts this quite well in his post above but to simply rephrase his thoughts.
They have specialized their fit to be able to get away, you need to specialize your fit to prevent them from getting away.
If you or anyone else for that matter are not willing to make those sacrifices that does not mean the module needs to be adjusted, it means is that you need to adjust your expectations.
Paranoid Loyd
#39 - 2015-12-31 00:05:42 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
At max the Punisher can fit 4 points in warp core stability since it has 4 low slots.

You might want to count those low slots again.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#40 - 2015-12-31 01:53:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
So once again Faction Warfare rears its ugly head... Fine. The first thing we change is preventing non-FW ships from entering FW complexes. Problem solved.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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