These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3161 - 2015-12-29 10:20:50 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Concerning CCP's financials, 2014 was an atypical year since they derecognized WoD and that made a -22 million $ hit in their financials. As for 2015, we know that they spent an estimate of 16 million dollars to buy back their bonds, which has removed the need to reelase their financial statements. Also we know that CCP has obtained 30 million dollars to develop VR projects of which we know very little beyond some prototypes shown at Fanfest and Vegas.

Depending on how VR pans out, CCP's prospects in the short and middle term look in a range going from "fine enough" to "oh my God".

But that's because of VR products, not EVE; and so far, EVE still is the cash cow for everything else. I don't think that DUST 514 has paid itself back, no matter if 3,000 guys online pay for the operational cost so it is not losing money.

They announced it had covered it's development cost somewhere, I don't have the reference so can't confirm it, but it is entirely possible it has.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3162 - 2015-12-29 10:30:32 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Concerning CCP's financials, 2014 was an atypical year since they derecognized WoD and that made a -22 million $ hit in their financials. As for 2015, we know that they spent an estimate of 16 million dollars to buy back their bonds, which has removed the need to reelase their financial statements. Also we know that CCP has obtained 30 million dollars to develop VR projects of which we know very little beyond some prototypes shown at Fanfest and Vegas.

Depending on how VR pans out, CCP's prospects in the short and middle term look in a range going from "fine enough" to "oh my God".

But that's because of VR products, not EVE; and so far, EVE still is the cash cow for everything else. I don't think that DUST 514 has paid itself back, no matter if 3,000 guys online pay for the operational cost so it is not losing money.

They announced it had covered it's development cost somewhere, I don't have the reference so can't confirm it, but it is entirely possible it has.


It wouldn't surprise me. And it wouldn't surprise me if the money they've spent on R&D was entirely within their capabilities, given how much they've made of EVE prior to all these new developments they've recently initiated.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3163 - 2015-12-29 10:46:08 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Concerning CCP's financials, 2014 was an atypical year since they derecognized WoD and that made a -22 million $ hit in their financials. As for 2015, we know that they spent an estimate of 16 million dollars to buy back their bonds, which has removed the need to reelase their financial statements. Also we know that CCP has obtained 30 million dollars to develop VR projects of which we know very little beyond some prototypes shown at Fanfest and Vegas.

Depending on how VR pans out, CCP's prospects in the short and middle term look in a range going from "fine enough" to "oh my God".

But that's because of VR products, not EVE; and so far, EVE still is the cash cow for everything else. I don't think that DUST 514 has paid itself back, no matter if 3,000 guys online pay for the operational cost so it is not losing money.


So they financially discarded WOD, while that sucks no one cares and it doesn't in any way "get them in financial trouble", bonds buyback is a normal thing that is actually quite positive.

Simply put the old thing still stands: if CCP sticks to EVE they do well, if they start pursuing pet projects they fck up. No need for drama or agenda pushing.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3164 - 2015-12-29 11:02:17 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
So they financially discarded WOD, while that sucks no one cares and it doesn't in any way "get them in financial trouble", bonds buyback is a normal thing that is actually quite positive.

Simply put the old thing still stands: if CCP sticks to EVE they do well, if they start pursuing pet projects they fck up. No need for drama or agenda pushing.
Do you not consider Valkyrie to be a pet project? The way I see it, their focus is shifting to Valkyrie because with it being a bundled title they are guaranteed sales and exposure. While that's good for Valkyrie and CCP, it's bad for EVE as it means less focus and less development. You can already see this manifesting, even in the name of the latest update (or lack thereof).

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3165 - 2015-12-29 11:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Lucas Kell wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
So they financially discarded WOD, while that sucks no one cares and it doesn't in any way "get them in financial trouble", bonds buyback is a normal thing that is actually quite positive.

Simply put the old thing still stands: if CCP sticks to EVE they do well, if they start pursuing pet projects they fck up. No need for drama or agenda pushing.
Do you not consider Valkyrie to be a pet project? The way I see it, their focus is shifting to Valkyrie because with it being a bundled title they are guaranteed sales and exposure. While that's good for Valkyrie and CCP, it's bad for EVE as it means less focus and less development. You can already see this manifesting, even in the name of the latest update (or lack thereof).


Stop being dumb.

That statement made sense back in 2011 when it was demonstrably the case that focus wasn't on EVE and hadn't been for some time. Atm lots of stuff is happening in/to EVE with lots of effort, changes, updates and whatnot. Not always good ones but the "see, there's nothing done for EVE. DOOOOOOM!!!!" is just moronic.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3166 - 2015-12-29 11:28:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Gregor Parud wrote:
Stop being dumb.

That statement made sense back in 2011 when it was demonstrably the case that focus wasn't on EVE and hadn't been for some time. Atm lots of stuff is happening in/to EVE with lots of effort, changes, updates and whatnot. Not always good ones but the "see, there's nothing done for EVE. DOOOOOOM!!!!" is just moronic.
Uhh, wut? You're the one that stated "if they start pursuing pet projects they fck up", yet you don't consider Valkyrie to be a pet project, or if you do don't think they will "fck up"?

All I'm pointing out is that if you split focus on projects (which they do) that the development going into EVE will shrink. since they've just taken a 30m investment into their VR department and have been confirmed as a bundled title with Rift, I imagine CCP will be pushing pretty hard on Valkrie (and potentially Gunjack). You can pretend that won't affect EVE all you like.

At no point did I say "doom".

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3167 - 2015-12-29 11:35:37 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Stop being dumb.

That statement made sense back in 2011 when it was demonstrably the case that focus wasn't on EVE and hadn't been for some time. Atm lots of stuff is happening in/to EVE with lots of effort, changes, updates and whatnot. Not always good ones but the "see, there's nothing done for EVE. DOOOOOOM!!!!" is just moronic.
Uhh, wut? You're the one that stated "if they start pursuing pet projects they fck up", yet you don't consider Valkyrie to be a pet project, or if you do don't think they will "fck up"?

All I'm pointing out is that if you split focus on projects (which they do) that the development going into EVE will shrink. since they've just taken a 30m investment into their VR department and have been confirmed as a bundled title with Rift, I imagine CCP will be pushing pretty hard on Valkrie (and potentially Gunjack). You can pretend that won't affect EVE all you like.

At no point did I say "doom".


"it's bad for EVE as it means less focus and less development. You can already see this manifesting, even in the name of the latest update (or lack thereof)."

Stop being dumb.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3168 - 2015-12-29 11:44:06 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
"it's bad for EVE as it means less focus and less development. You can already see this manifesting, even in the name of the latest update (or lack thereof)."

Stop being dumb.
So to be clear, are you claiming that they can develop a second game without affecting EVE, and that you now disagree with your own quote that they "fck up" when they split development?

Just want to be clear, since obviously I'm the one being dumb here by claiming that development time is finite.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3169 - 2015-12-29 11:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Gregor Parud wrote:


Stop being dumb.

That statement made sense back in 2011 when it was demonstrably the case that focus wasn't on EVE and hadn't been for some time. Atm lots of stuff is happening in/to EVE with lots of effort, changes, updates and whatnot. Not always good ones but the "see, there's nothing done for EVE. DOOOOOOM!!!!" is just moronic.


It doesn't matter what you give them, there will always be a select few special snowflakes who can never have enough. Nothing is ever good enough, and even when you give them a tonne of new content, in their minds it amounts to literally nothing. I can't imagine the emptiness they feel inside.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3170 - 2015-12-29 12:02:13 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
It doesn't matter what you give them, there will always be a select few special snowflakes who can never have enough. Nothing is ever good enough, and even when you give them a tonne of new content, in their minds it amounts to literally nothing. I can't imagine the emptiness they feel inside.
I never stated that there was "literally nothing" just that there is less development now than there has been in the past, and signs pointing to less in the future.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Solecist Project
#3171 - 2015-12-29 12:05:33 UTC

If people who are so heavily invested in this thread ...
... would instead spend their time with new players ...
... then this thread wouldn't have to exist in the first place.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3172 - 2015-12-29 12:07:40 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
It doesn't matter what you give them, there will always be a select few special snowflakes who can never have enough. Nothing is ever good enough, and even when you give them a tonne of new content, in their minds it amounts to literally nothing. I can't imagine the emptiness they feel inside.
I never stated that there was "literally nothing" just that there is less development now than there has been in the past, and signs pointing to less in the future.


I disagree. CCP have put in a hell of a lot of dev resources. But a lot of that effort has gone into refactoring the old hastily written, poorly commented code from the early years.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3173 - 2015-12-29 12:13:53 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
So they financially discarded WOD, while that sucks no one cares and it doesn't in any way "get them in financial trouble", bonds buyback is a normal thing that is actually quite positive.

Simply put the old thing still stands: if CCP sticks to EVE they do well, if they start pursuing pet projects they fck up. No need for drama or agenda pushing.
Do you not consider Valkyrie to be a pet project? The way I see it, their focus is shifting to Valkyrie because with it being a bundled title they are guaranteed sales and exposure. While that's good for Valkyrie and CCP, it's bad for EVE as it means less focus and less development. You can already see this manifesting, even in the name of the latest update (or lack thereof).



bad for eve? Are you serious? Valkyre will create major exposure for eve as never seen before. If ccp will be able to improve player retation to make good use of that is another matter, but valkyre will ikely create a huge spike of newcomers.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3174 - 2015-12-29 12:14:51 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

If people who are so heavily invested in this thread ...
... would instead spend their time with new players ...
... then this thread wouldn't have to exist in the first place.




I do spend it.. usually firing projectiles and lasers at them.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3175 - 2015-12-29 12:15:56 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

If people who are so heavily invested in this thread ...
... would instead spend their time with new players ...
... then this thread wouldn't have to exist in the first place.

Well some of us do, but then they (surprisingly?) turn out to become evil blobbers who use ewar from day 7.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3176 - 2015-12-29 12:16:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
It doesn't matter what you give them, there will always be a select few special snowflakes who can never have enough. Nothing is ever good enough, and even when you give them a tonne of new content, in their minds it amounts to literally nothing. I can't imagine the emptiness they feel inside.
I never stated that there was "literally nothing" just that there is less development now than there has been in the past, and signs pointing to less in the future.
I disagree. CCP have put in a hell of a lot of dev resources. But a lot of that effort has gone into refactoring the old hastily written, poorly commented code from the early years.
So where did they get the resource from to build Valkyrie, and where will future resources come from for publishing, marketing, support, maintenance and updating? I'm not saying EVE development has halted or ever will, but it's wishful thinking to presume that Valkyrie will have no effect on their development of EVE. I'd imagine as time goes on we'll see less in terms of new features and more balancing, maintenance and "look and feel" updates.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3177 - 2015-12-29 12:21:28 UTC
World of Darkness.

Oh god.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3178 - 2015-12-29 12:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Kagura Nikon wrote:
bad for eve? Are you serious? Valkyre will create major exposure for eve as never seen before. If ccp will be able to improve player retation to make good use of that is another matter, but valkyre will ikely create a huge spike of newcomers.
Do you really think that a huge number of players interested in a VR twitch based shooter are likely to move to a low input spreadsheet simulator? It might produce a shot term spike as people take a quick look, but I can't imagine the type of players attracted to Valkyrie will be the type of players to like EVE.

Gregor Parud wrote:
If they keep focus on EVE (as well) sure, why not. The issue in 2011 is that they did it INSTEAD of EVE but atm they've been doing TONS of work. People who aren't dumb would probably recognise the work that's been done and would also understand the very distinct difference with 2011.
You stated yourself that "if they start pursuing pet projects they fck up". So do you mean they used to and now will be fine or that this time they will also fail? Also your definition of "TONS" is clearly different from mine.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3179 - 2015-12-29 12:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
bad for eve? Are you serious? Valkyre will create major exposure for eve as never seen before. If ccp will be able to improve player retation to make good use of that is another matter, but valkyre will ikely create a huge spike of newcomers.
Do you really think that a huge number of players interested in a VR twitch based shooter are likely to move to a low input spreadsheet simulator? It might produce a shot term spike as people take a quick look, but I can't imagine the type of players attracted to Valkyrie will be the type of players to like EVE.

Gregor Parud wrote:
If they keep focus on EVE (as well) sure, why not. The issue in 2011 is that they did it INSTEAD of EVE but atm they've been doing TONS of work. People who aren't dumb would probably recognise the work that's been done and would also understand the very distinct difference with 2011.
You stated yourself that "if they start pursuing pet projects they fck up". So do you mean they used to and now will be fine or that this time they will also fail? Also your definition of "TONS" is clearly different from mine.


It's the projects that fck up and cost money, not EVE. EVE is (and always has been) fine for as long as they put effort into it which is not a problem given how they're working hard on EVE while also doing other stuff.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3180 - 2015-12-29 12:46:32 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
bad for eve? Are you serious? Valkyre will create major exposure for eve as never seen before. If ccp will be able to improve player retation to make good use of that is another matter, but valkyre will ikely create a huge spike of newcomers.
Do you really think that a huge number of players interested in a VR twitch based shooter are likely to move to a low input spreadsheet simulator? It might produce a shot term spike as people take a quick look, but I can't imagine the type of players attracted to Valkyrie will be the type of players to like EVE.

Gregor Parud wrote:
If they keep focus on EVE (as well) sure, why not. The issue in 2011 is that they did it INSTEAD of EVE but atm they've been doing TONS of work. People who aren't dumb would probably recognise the work that's been done and would also understand the very distinct difference with 2011.
You stated yourself that "if they start pursuing pet projects they fck up". So do you mean they used to and now will be fine or that this time they will also fail? Also your definition of "TONS" is clearly different from mine.



And you think PC players are an homogeneous segment that if you like one type of game you cannot like other? I play eve for like 10 years, and play world of tanks, Il2, DCS World, strategy games, rpg and an insomunable amount of games that have absolutely nothing in common with each other. I would bet my lunch I am not unique in that regards. Even if only 5-10% of valkyre costumers try eve (and since CCp will not be dumb and valkyre launcher will have advertisement for eve, this is a reasonable number) , that is already a great opportunity for CCP. Marketing is as much if not MORE important than development resources when you seek to grow.

What is really dangerous is that CCP will yet again fail to retain costumers because they cannot even care to explain what type of game really is to newcomers.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"