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Remote Micro Jump Drive balance

Author
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#1 - 2015-12-28 22:52:28 UTC
In its current form, the RMJD is very overpowered and hard to counter. A relatively small group (10-15) can wreak havoc on an organized fleet with little penalty or counter play.

My suggested change would be thus:

Make the RMJD module targeted instead of being AOE.

So if you want to jump a 10 man logistics group away, you need to bring 10 command destroyers. It would also give more time to counter-scram the destroyer.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#2 - 2015-12-28 23:28:12 UTC
This could be the text for a new EVE song about blobbing and that poor little ship with his 8256347569276571345678 logi buddies that couldn't..

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-12-29 00:07:56 UTC
Capitol One wrote:

Make the RMJD module targeted instead of being AOE.
.


That would destroy the entire purpose of the ship... It is meant to break apart other fleets.
mrjknyazev
College of Winterhold
Honorable Third Party
#4 - 2015-12-29 01:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: mrjknyazev
Allow your logi pilots to fly by themselves, instead of orbiting an anchor.
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#5 - 2015-12-29 02:56:48 UTC
mrjknyazev wrote:
Allow your logi pilots to fly by themselves, instead of orbiting an anchor.


That is very hard when the rep range is about 12km.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-12-29 03:14:50 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
So if you want to jump a 10 man logistics group away, you need to bring 10 command destroyers. It would also give more time to counter-scram the destroyer.

The way I see it is this: you've got to ask yourself one question. You've got to decide if you want your logi group to stay on top of the fleet, or separated in a satellite group. You've got to ask yourself: "do I feel safe?"

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Mr Twinkie
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-12-29 04:38:27 UTC
I actually like the targeted idea. But instead have it effect all ships that are currently locked and not just one.
Jacob Gault
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-12-29 04:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacob Gault
It would just be easier to only allow one to run when turn on. In other words, once a ship turns it's MJU on other one could not be turn on next to it. You would need to space out a bit more in order to use yours or wait for near by unit one to jump away to run yours.


Yes it's built to break fleets which are 0 on each other. If you don't like it Im not sure what to tell you.. enjoy the sand box mate...
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#9 - 2015-12-29 05:34:30 UTC
Jacob Gault wrote:
It would just be easier to only allow one to run when turn on. In other words, once a ship turns it's MJU on other one could not be turn on next to it. You would need to space out a bit more in order to use yours or wait for near by unit one to jump away to run yours....If you don't like it Im not sure what to tell you.. enjoy the sand box mate...


LOL

In case you are one of those that cannot undock without your logi buddies that keep your stabber alive while you "fight" a Harbinger, maybe you could reduce your waiting time by doing the tutorial again before you undock next time.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-12-29 10:56:01 UTC
Command destroyers are great in smaller gang. I am not sure how I feel about them in larger gang yet. They DO seem to carry quite a bit higher of a force multiplier value than just about any other single ship. A falcon has a maximum number of people it can jam. A Huginn a maximum it can web, a dread a finite limit to how many it can lock and apply damage to in relative quick succession, an archon an upper limit on how much it can rep.


These things do not. They are very small, light ships that's only upper limit is how many people are in range, not scrammed. The argument of 'just scram it,' again, works in smaller scale. But even getting into 10-15, it becomes untenable. I would be more in favor to an upper mass limit or number of entities sort of upper limit imposed on them.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Top Guac
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-12-29 11:00:47 UTC
Niraia already has a thread with this very same idea.

Did we really need another.

Snuff really have gone downhill. Can't even forum.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-12-29 11:22:20 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Niraia already has a thread with this very same idea.

Did we really need another.

Snuff really have gone downhill. Can't even forum.



I know this is an odd concept, so bear with me, but some people actually play Eve to play Eve; not everyone spends half their time shedding braincells on reddit. Niraia's thread is titled command destroyers, which does not implicitly imply their RMJD functionality. Without reading the thread, it is easy to see how someone(s), as multiple people have responded to this thread, did not look at that thread because it did not grab our attention as being about RMJD's.


I'm sure the concept of playing Eve will be foreign to you, so I don't expect you to understand. Thank you for trying though.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-12-29 12:08:53 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
In its current form, the RMJD is very overpowered and hard to counter. A relatively small group (10-15) can wreak havoc on an organized fleet with little penalty or counter play.

My suggested change would be thus:

Make the RMJD module targeted instead of being AOE.

So if you want to jump a 10 man logistics group away, you need to bring 10 command destroyers. It would also give more time to counter-scram the destroyer.



I think the idea of the module was exactly that. Make organized fleets less prevalent and make individual capability of adapt and do the best possible after the fleet is scattered matter more.

LEts be honest, there are tons of self proclaimed pvpers out there that if they are scattered in grid they are completely unable to fly by themselves to tackle important targets or to regroup in an effective way without the FC explaining everything bit by bit.

This ship will make personal skill and perception of the battle very relevant again

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#14 - 2015-12-29 15:07:34 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
mrjknyazev wrote:
Allow your logi pilots to fly by themselves, instead of orbiting an anchor.


That is very hard when the rep range is about 12km.


Optimal + falloff is actually better than before. You just don't get as much raw rep power at that range.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#15 - 2015-12-29 17:06:55 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Command destroyers are great in smaller gang. I am not sure how I feel about them in larger gang yet. They DO seem to carry quite a bit higher of a force multiplier value than just about any other single ship. A falcon has a maximum number of people it can jam. A Huginn a maximum it can web, a dread a finite limit to how many it can lock and apply damage to in relative quick succession, an archon an upper limit on how much it can rep.


These things do not. They are very small, light ships that's only upper limit is how many people are in range, not scrammed. The argument of 'just scram it,' again, works in smaller scale. But even getting into 10-15, it becomes untenable. I would be more in favor to an upper mass limit or number of entities sort of upper limit imposed on them.


Keep in mind, in your examples that a falcon and huginn have a much larger sphere of influence. The ship is designed to scale well, it is meant to be at the head of the fleet with 2 different fleet bonuses (Boosts and the MJD).

Kenrailae wrote:

These things do not. They are very small, light ships that's only upper limit is how many people are in range, not scrammed. The argument of 'just scram it,' again, works in smaller scale. But even getting into 10-15, it becomes untenable. I would be more in favor to an upper mass limit or number of entities sort of upper limit imposed on them.


I'm envisioning a scram chain to match the guardian cap chain.... 1 up 1 down Twisted.

TBH, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the utility of using these when you have a fleet travelling through nulsec that isn't nullified and either can't equip, or doesn't want to equip an MJD of their own.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#16 - 2015-12-29 17:08:17 UTC
What's in your wallet?


Bad ideas, apparently...

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#17 - 2015-12-29 17:09:57 UTC
The part where this can mess with big fleets is exactly why this should stay lol.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-12-30 01:58:39 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:


Keep in mind, in your examples that a falcon and huginn have a much larger sphere of influence. The ship is designed to scale well, it is meant to be at the head of the fleet with 2 different fleet bonuses (Boosts and the MJD).




Yeah, there is that. I hadn't specifically thought of that. But it's still a numbers game. In the example fight this is referring to(Ikoskio or however it's spelled), the vast fleet size differences still made these things extremely powerful for the larger side, and not a viable option for the smaller side.

There are about a billion and one other arguments that can be had between point A and point Z, including Legion logi, slippery petes, min/maxed mach fleets, Grr Goons, supers, titans, slow cats, fighting, not fighting...... I'm not going to bog discussion down in any of those, reddit has that covered I'm sure.

At the end of all of it, we still get down to the vast swathes of much larger, in fact some of the largest non-capital ships in the game, these things can just whisk away en masse. I agree their 'impact' range is rather small, but within that, it's ability to force multiply is unparalleled. I do think the RMJD/G should have an upper limit, be it locked targets, mass, number of entities, something. That goes for both disrupting an enemy fleet and trying to save one of your own. A single Falcon is annoying, but still largely ineffective, in larger fleets. One of these things can still be brutally effective. Yes, I know Ikoskio used a wing of 10 or something. That was just good planning. In no way do I want these removed, just some sort of upper limit imposed.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2015-12-30 02:17:13 UTC
My only complaint is how disorienting they can be. I'd rather they had some sort of rapid warp or movement animation to kind of show you where you went. I'm not a computer, so triangulating myself off suddenly larger distances means more zooming out and camera spinning to get my bearings. Not entirely unbearable, but still annoying.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2015-12-30 08:48:31 UTC
The counter you ate looking for is a hic several 37km scrams will turn off most mjfg long enough to kill them





However ffs the command dessies need a speed nerf
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