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Mining Standstill?

First post
Author
Thorn Davidus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-12-26 14:26:46 UTC
Hi Guys,

This a little rant about mining....

All we`ve seen for many moons is new combat modules, new combat ships, revamps on missiles, revamps on railguns, combat scenario`s (i.e. frostline), introduction of the Jovians etc etc.

May I ask when you guys (CCP) have plans to do something/upgrade mining?

Mining is the base of the game, almost everyone does it at some point, many make their game livelihood`s out of it, many, many more depend on miners for their game i.e. ship manufacturing.

Damn...I`ve even seen a CODE member mining! Big smile (Albeit in a Venture!)

At the moment we`re just sitting ducks, waiting to be killed or bumped into position for a kill.

Bumping - When ocean going mounted ships 'bumped' other ships (i.e. Ramming) it was considered a hostile act an it should be considered that in the game as well..never mind the fact that a smaller ship can bump a freighter and even make it move...without damage!
(Pretty much like seeing a dingy bumping a cargo freighter - we all know what would happen there!)

Mining - When are we going to see tech 3 mining ships, maybe new mining techs, new mining lasers, mining rigs, more module spaces on existing ships...hell maybe even a mining cloak!

Compare the number of combat ships to mining ships, or the number of guns and missile to mining lasers etc.

Frostline would have been a great opportunity to introduce new mining tech. ORE gets busted free, the Serpentis (who`ve held ORE for so long) just get busted and Damn! (can I say damn?) It just so happens ORE were working on new and wonderful mining tech!

Each nation has it`s own ships, from rookie ships to Titans and even individualized transport ships....but no mining ships?
Same can be said for the NPC nations. We`ve seen massive changes in NPC ships...but no mining ships.

With the introduction of Citadels (fantastic move by the way), the demand for minerals is only going to increase, which will mean more miners, more miners, more sitting ducks!

...and by more sitting ducks that could mean more upset players (just like me), who spend many hours mining only to get shot out of the 'sky' by cheap, crappy little ships with negligible action taken on the aggressor...they just wait 15 minutes and buy a new cheap, crappy ship!!!

(Ganking sounds like an intrusive medical experience!)

Hopefully, you (CCP) will tell me that this is all in the pipeline, maybe fly me over to Iceland to share all my idea`s (although I would prefer if you could relocate to Hawaii or somewhere hotter)...

...but if you`re not looking at it and the next 12 months of changes are all going to be pew pew related...

...maybe, just maybe you could give it a thought!


Valkin Mordirc
#2 - 2015-12-26 14:47:23 UTC
New mining tech?

Liiiiike the Endurance? The just released new tech 2 mining frigate?

Also EVE doesn't need a ton of different mining ships, Mining is a low intensity feature, it very basic and it doesn't need 24 mining ships in it's current form.

I feel like call for a bump nerf and the gank complaint is a hidden troll trap.

#DeleteTheWeak
Thorn Davidus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-12-26 15:18:57 UTC
Hi Valkin,

This mail was broad spectrum, please read it again and try to understand it this time.

P.s. Miners don`t mine in Frigates, that we leave to 'bump nerfs' (what ever those are!)

:)
Valkin Mordirc
#4 - 2015-12-26 15:33:05 UTC
Fo sho on the troll bait.
#DeleteTheWeak
Thorn Davidus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-12-26 16:34:09 UTC
Hi Valkin,

No bridge here.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2015-12-26 18:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
God dayum... it's like every miner whine rolled into one.

Thorn Davidus wrote:
May I ask when you guys (CCP) have plans to do something/upgrade mining?

... (snip)...

Frostline would have been a great opportunity to introduce new mining tech. ORE gets busted free, the Serpentis (who`ve held ORE for so long) just get busted and Damn! (can I say damn?) It just so happens ORE were working on new and wonderful mining tech!

They have been introducing Tech 2 mining frigates that are quite useful in "hostile" areas.

That's something.

Thorn Davidus wrote:
At the moment we`re just sitting ducks, waiting to be killed or bumped into position for a kill.

Soooooooo... do something about it? You have tools like everyone else.

Orbit the rocks you are mining. This makes bumping MUCH harder.
Use a tanky Procurer. Those things are virtually ungankable.

Thorn Davidus wrote:
Bumping - When ocean going mounted ships 'bumped' other ships (i.e. Ramming) it was considered a hostile act an it should be considered that in the game as well..never mind the fact that a smaller ship can bump a freighter and even make it move...without damage!
(Pretty much like seeing a dingy bumping a cargo freighter - we all know what would happen there!)

Pssssssst... you don't want this. If you make bumping into an "aggressive act" then people will bump miners into other people... or surround a miner that is sitting still and wait. This all means that it will be legal to shoot miners at will!

Also...
- bumping is used quite often in PvP. They deal with it. You can too.
- Freighters are not meant to be moved "solo." Get "support" when moving it.


Thorn Davidus wrote:
Each nation has it`s own ships, from rookie ships to Titans and even individualized transport ships....but no mining ships?
Same can be said for the NPC nations. We`ve seen massive changes in NPC ships...but no mining ships.

There used to be "racial mining ships." They were the...

- Navitas
- Tormentor
- Burst
- Bantam

- Vexor
- Arbitrator
- Scythe
- Osprey

Then the DEVs realized that no one used those ships for mining because barges were so much better... in every way. So they phased out the racial mining ships. And everyone cheered.


Thorn Davidus wrote:
...and by more sitting ducks that could mean more upset players (just like me), who spend many hours mining only to get shot out of the 'sky' by cheap, crappy little ships with negligible action taken on the aggressor...they just wait 15 minutes and buy a new cheap, crappy ship!!!

Dude... Procurers. They tank like battlecruisers. No one is going to gank you in them. And if they are, then you have either done something to really **** them off or are not being ganked at all... you are either at war or in low-sec (in which case, it is all your own fault).

And if you want to avoid bumping... don't sit still and use the "terrain" to block people from lining up their bump.

People who gank are not supernatural players who are using equipment and mechanics that no one else has access to. They are players just like you and can be beaten using the very same equipment and mechanics.

Also... use Procurers.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2015-12-26 18:19:51 UTC
Thorn Davidus wrote:


Bumping - When ocean going mounted ships 'bumped' other ships (i.e. Ramming) it was considered a hostile act an it should be considered that in the game as well..never mind the fact that a smaller ship can bump a freighter and even make it move...without damage!
(Pretty much like seeing a dingy bumping a cargo freighter - we all know what would happen there!)


Oh God, not this again. Can't you use the search function dude?

What about friendly bumping?

Also, learn the game mechanics and what a MWD does to your ship when it is turned on. Might also help deal with these problems...you know learning to play the game you are supposedly playing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#8 - 2015-12-26 18:22:07 UTC
Thorn Davidus wrote:
...revamps on missiles...


...making missiles the worst weapon system in EVE in early 2007... is what you wanted to write.


You are welcome, Merry Christmas!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Valkin Mordirc
#9 - 2015-12-26 18:27:35 UTC
On the note of bumping causing damage,

I much rather have anti matter shot at me,

Then a Massive Ship the size of an Aircraft carrier hurtling at me at 5km/s

Just as a reference, the NATO 5.56 has a muzzle velocity at around 900m/s and FMJ can pierce thin sheets of steel

Seems like a more effective way to bump honestly.
#DeleteTheWeak
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2015-12-26 18:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Thorn Davidus wrote:


...and by more sitting ducks that could mean more upset players (just like me), who spend many hours mining only to get shot out of the 'sky' by cheap, crappy little ships with negligible action taken on the aggressor...they just wait 15 minutes and buy a new cheap, crappy ship!!!



To reiterate what Shah Fluffers has already pointed out a tanked out procurer or even better a skiff will send the gankers looking elsewhere. Yes, your ISK/hour will take a hit, but what happens to your ISK/hour when you factor in ship losses? What you weren't doing that? Oh my.

Also, if you have a boosting ship...maybe have them fit command links for combat, like boosting your tank. With a skiff with an actual tank you'll have an EHP of over 119,000. No resist will be below 80.7%. The resists you'll most likely need, thermal and kinetic will be 84.6% and 82% respectively. If your orca has seige warfare links your EHP will go over 134,000 and your lowest resist will be 81.7%. Pop out combat drones and you might even whore on a few of mails of any ganker foolish enough to engage you...but chances are they'll slide down the belt and go for the retriever or the coveter, or even the hulks or mackinaws. In fact, eventually you might change your attitude towards CODE...they'll be clearing the belt of....wait....wait....your competition!

Oh and I'll spare you the numbers if you over-heat your stuff.

TL;DR: Your skiff can have a BS level tank if you aren't completely dumb and horrible at this game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Netan MalDoran
Hail To The King
The Silent Syndicate
#11 - 2015-12-26 18:39:56 UTC
IB4L

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2015-12-26 18:44:01 UTC
Netan MalDoran wrote:
IB4L


This will not be locked for at least 15 pages...but hey, you made the first page.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#13 - 2015-12-26 19:12:48 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

There used to be "racial mining ships." They were the...

- Bantam

- Osprey


O, the memories...

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#14 - 2015-12-26 19:52:44 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Netan MalDoran wrote:
IB4L


This will not be locked for at least 15 pages...but hey, you made the first page.

ezwal used to call these "lighting rod threads ".

each subforum has one at any given time,
keeps the crybabys and the trolls in one place and easy to manage while the rest of the threads can be kept relatively peaceful.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#15 - 2015-12-26 20:27:09 UTC
if anything, Rorq still need a love to make them viable to get out of POS and actual get used
Thorn Davidus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-12-26 22:08:49 UTC
Hi Guys,

I think it`s awesome that my post has received so much feedback, thank you everyone for that...both positive ....and otherwise! Smile

Rather than take an individual item i.e. ganking, take the whole picture. What has happened in the last year to improve mining, mining ships, mining modules, mining rigs...

Then compare that to the changes that have happened throughout Eve for just about everything else...

Is mining being left behind? Is there a mining standstill?

Individually....

You older folk Big smile, speak of mining vessels that are now redundant (and before my time on Eve), I`m pretty sure that there were redundant combat vessels also which have passed into obscurity...

That`s not what this post is about..it`s about what`s happening now and in the future, redundant vessels don`t mean that newer vessels cannot be created or implemented.

Primary bumping and secondary bumping are different things....primary bumping which is something being done to ships to get them into a kill zone should be hostile (obviously) while a secondary bump (i.e. into a friendly) can be easily distinguished. Not really an issue, just takes an ounce of thought.

Larger ships as a rule move far slower than their counterparts (smaller/faster vessels), should bumping therefore be used aggressively by a far larger ship, a smaller/faster ship has ample opportunity to move/evade.

Should a bump connect, then Yes, there should be damage incurred...

i.e. A skiff (lacking stabs) tackled by a Sabre should most certainly be able to bump it causing damage. Why not?

Teckos Pech - not sure what you mean about the search option, could you please extrapolate....but then again your comment could be considered trolling! Cool

Procurers & Skiffs fall victim just like everyone else...what are the options of an independent miner in a tackled procurer with a tech 2 stabs versus 5 frigates/destroyers? ...or 1 camper with a cyno? Big smile

Skiffs are 170 million, Catalysts are 1 million...Catalysts have 8 high slots, 2 medium, 3 low. Skiffs Have 1 high slot, 5 medium, 3 low. Twice as many slots at only 170th of the price! Oops

elitatwo - ty.

ShahFluffers - it most certainly is. The shooting of miners happens by the hundred`s everyday...hence my post.

My thanks once again to everyone that has replied, you are all raising issues that are relevant and need addressing, and the more posts we have, the more attention it will hopefully attract.

Thorn
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-12-26 22:11:55 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Thorn Davidus wrote:


Bumping - When ocean going mounted ships 'bumped' other ships (i.e. Ramming) it was considered a hostile act an it should be considered that in the game as well..never mind the fact that a smaller ship can bump a freighter and even make it move...without damage!
(Pretty much like seeing a dingy bumping a cargo freighter - we all know what would happen there!)


Oh God, not this again. Can't you use the search function dude?

What about friendly bumping?

Also, learn the game mechanics and what a MWD does to your ship when it is turned on. Might also help deal with these problems...you know learning to play the game you are supposedly playing.


Inbeforejitaexplodesfrommistakebumping

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Thorn Davidus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-12-26 22:16:25 UTC
Mistakes happen...most of us are human, but I would imagine that there are far fewer accidental bumps than intentional.
Thorn Davidus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-12-26 22:22:08 UTC
Then again, it happened at Jita...we all know the sort of stuff that happens at Jita! Big smile
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2015-12-26 22:23:40 UTC
Thorn Davidus wrote:

This a little rant about mining....


Last time I checked, this forum was called Features & Ideas, not Features, ideas and rants.
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