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Rattlesnake: Rocking Geckos Like a Boss
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1 - 2015-12-24 20:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
The problem with using Geckos with the Rattlesnake is that they invariable get webbed or scrammed, and then you lose half your effective DPS while furiously trying to recover them before they perishes in a fiery coffin. Until now, that is.

In order to eliminate any and all NPC drone aggro from the Gecko you need to run a single module: Phased Muon ECCM Caster I. NPCs apparently hate EW more than life itself and will go out of their way to attack you while remaining completely oblivious to the Gecko wreaking havoc in their ranks. It took me a while to find this gem hidden amongst thousands of drone-related posts, but it was well worth it.

I've thoroughly tested this in over a half dozen missions where Geckos normally get their collective tails handed to them, and it works flawlessly. And when I say flawlessly, I mean the Gecko didn't take a single point of damage. Full disclaimer: This has only been tested with a single ECCM'd Gecko, and being completely sensor damped or ECM jammed may have an adverse effect on drone aggro. I have no idea how this will work in null with the current drone aggro issue.

Because EW enrages NPCs to no end, an aggressive Gecko becomes a methodical killing machine (especially when boosted with navigation computers, tracking enhancers and scope chips). A 4k/sec Gecko putting out 835 omni-DPS at 8.27km optimal is nothing to shrug off. Provided you have sufficient tank, you can literally follow it around volleying missiles as it singlehandedly mows through targets.

Addendum I: I was able to confirm that this works with multiple drones - including sentries. You just need to have remote ECCM actively applied to one of your dones, so a single ECCM module will suffice. This is great for several reasons. First, it obviously only takes up a single mid slot. Second, you only need to burn one of your available target slots to maintain an active remote ECCM link. And finally, it will almost certainly work on any drone-based ship (Ishtar, Dominix, Nestor) - so 'squishier' drones should be just fine. Some of the other tertiary benefits are that one won't need to use drone durability rigs and the level of Drone Durability will not be quite as crucial in PvE.

Addendum II: If your drones engage frigates prior to activating ECCM, it fails to pull aggro off them. If this happens NPC aggro sticks for the duration until you recall and pull all NPC aggro back on yourself. For this reason you may want drones set to passive or order them to orbit until you can activate remote ECCM. This is only an issue where you immediately arrive adjacent to any particularly aggressive drones (stasis or disruption).

Addendum III: Here is a list of missions I've tested this with along with any pointers and notes.
• Assault ... Haven't run into any issues with ECM jams breaking remote ECCM (yet).
• Attack of the Drones ... No issues.
• Cargo Delivery ... If you choose to shoot the NPCs and trigger the waves, you'll lose remote ECCM on your drones due to sensor damps. Even with NPC frigates they continued to ignore the Gecko and focus on the Rattlesnake.
• Damsel in Distress ... No issues, just remember to watch aggro since it will all be on the Rattlesnake - and Geckos tend to hit all the triggers when left on their own.
• Dread Pirate Scarlet ... No issues.
• Duo of Death ... No issues.
• Enemies Abound 1-5 ... No issues (even if they aggro the Gecko, applying remote ECCM refocus aggro on the Rattlesnake). I found that for most of these I didn't even need to apply remote ECCM at all - the Geck could just ride out any brief DPS.
• Infiltrated Outposts ... No issues.
• Intercept the Saboteurs ... No issues.
• Gone Beserk ... No issues.
• Guristas Spies ... No issues.
• Massive Attack ... No issues.
• Pirate Invasion ... No issues (yet).
• Recon 1 ... No issues (haven't tried Recon 2 as I usually skip shooting anything).
• Right Hand of Zazzmatazz ... No issues.
• Rogue Drone Harassment ... No issues.
• Rogue Slave Trader ... No issues.
• Downing the Slavers ... No issues.
• Silence the Informant ... No issues.
• Smuggler Interception ... No issues.
• Stop the Thief ... No issues (yet).
• Worlds Collide ... The second Guristas room can be a b*tch, so make sure you set your Gecko to passive or have it orbit before engaging anything as you jump in right on top of a few Guristas frigates and they go after it in a big way.
• Wildcat Strike ... No issues.
• Unauthorized Military Presence ... No issues.

Outstanding missions to test:
• Guristas and Angel Extravaganza
• Vengeance
• The Score

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#2 - 2015-12-24 23:21:08 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
The problem with using Geckos with the Rattlesnake is that they invariable get webbed or scrammed, and then you lose half your effective DPS while furiously trying to recover them before they perishes in a fiery coffin. Until now, that is.

In order to eliminate any and all NPC drone aggro from the Gecko you need to run a single module: Phased Muon ECCM Caster I. NPCs apparently hate EW more than life itself and will go out of their way to attack you while remaining completely oblivious to the Gecko wreaking havoc in their ranks. It took me a while to find this gem hidden amongst thousands of drone-related posts, but it was well worth it.

I've thoroughly tested this in over a half dozen missions where Geckos normally get their collective tails handed to them, and it works flawlessly. And when I say flawlessly, I mean the Gecko didn't take a single point of damage. Full disclaimer: This has only been tested with a single ECCM'd Gecko, and being completely sensor damped or ECM jammed may have an adverse effect on drone aggro. I have no idea how this will work in null with the current drone aggro issue.

Because EW enrages NPCs to no end, an aggressive Gecko becomes a methodical killing machine (especially when boosted with navigation computers, tracking enhancers and scope chips). A 4k/sec Gecko putting out 835 omni-DPS at 8.27km optimal is nothing to shrug off. Provided you have sufficient tank, you can literally follow it around volleying missiles as it singlehandedly mows through targets.


DAMN IT.

I mean really, I was gimping my fit with drone durability mods to 'gecko tank' my fof missile permatanked mwd snake. I kept thinking "man, if there was only a way to use a ecm burst to hold most agro in lvl 4 missions like I do in null, but I cant because i'll get concorded.

The Arthur Thrice Damned Aihaken posts the above, and I get to feel like a blame idiot for going all this time without thinking of that myself.

Damn you Aihaken, Damn you to space-hell, which btw is a real place.

Just tried it in game on my less perfectly skilled alt, works like a super champ.

[Rattlesnake, USS Aihaken]
Damage Control II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
Gist A-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Ogre II x2
Gecko x1
Ogre II x3
Scourge Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I x6000
Inferno Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I x6000
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-12-25 00:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
The problem with using Geckos with the Rattlesnake is that they invariable get webbed or scrammed, and then you lose half your effective DPS while furiously trying to recover them before they perishes in a fiery coffin. Until now, that is.

In order to eliminate any and all NPC drone aggro from the Gecko you need to run a single module: Phased Muon ECCM Caster I. NPCs apparently hate EW more than life itself and will go out of their way to attack you while remaining completely oblivious to the Gecko wreaking havoc in their ranks. It took me a while to find this gem hidden amongst thousands of drone-related posts, but it was well worth it.

I've thoroughly tested this in over a half dozen missions where Geckos normally get their collective tails handed to them, and it works flawlessly. And when I say flawlessly, I mean the Gecko didn't take a single point of damage. Full disclaimer: This has only been tested with a single ECCM'd Gecko, and being completely sensor damped or ECM jammed may have an adverse effect on drone aggro. I have no idea how this will work in null with the current drone aggro issue.

Because EW enrages NPCs to no end, an aggressive Gecko becomes a methodical killing machine (especially when boosted with navigation computers, tracking enhancers and scope chips). A 4k/sec Gecko putting out 835 omni-DPS at 8.27km optimal is nothing to shrug off. Provided you have sufficient tank, you can literally follow it around volleying missiles as it singlehandedly mows through targets.


How is the Phased Nuon ECCM caster used? Like on the drone itself or on certain enemies? Does this work with Sentries and other Heavy Drones?

Which NPCs have you tested this on?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4 - 2015-12-25 00:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Jenn aSide wrote:
DAMN IT. Damn you Aihaken, Damn you to space-hell, which btw is a real place. Just tried it in game on my less perfectly skilled alt, works like a super champ.

Hehe. I've only tried it with a single drone but I imagine you only need it applied to a single drone to be effective.

Daniela Doran wrote:
How is the Phased Nuon ECCM caster used? Like on the drone itself or on certain enemies? Does this work with Sentries and other Heavy Drones? Which NPCs have you tested this on?

Correct - you apply ECCM to your drone once you've deployed it (see above). I've tried this with all NPCs, but I haven't run into a situation where I've been damped out or ECM jammed to let you know what effect that would have on temporarily losing lock/remote ECCM. I'll update the original post when that arises.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arik VanClaw
The Emet Corporation
#5 - 2015-12-25 00:46:33 UTC
Well played figuring this out. But is it really faster using Geckos then plopping out some Gardes with optimal range mods? Just now learning the power of the rattlesnake. Certainly burns through missions faster than my old CNR did.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6 - 2015-12-25 00:55:27 UTC
Arik VanClaw wrote:
Well played figuring this out. But is it really faster using Geckos then plopping out some Gardes with optimal range mods? Just now learning the power of the rattlesnake. Certainly burns through missions faster than my old CNR did.

Thanks. I think it really depends on the type of mission. Geckos seem to really massacre Rogue Drones and Mercenaries with a vengeance, so I suspect in instances where most of the NPCs are clustered within 10-20km of each other Geckos will prove superior. The other advantage with Geckos is that with a bit of a boost to tracking they will single volley frigates and drones - something sentries can only do at longer ranges.

I believe (although I haven't tested it) this method will work for any type of drone, including sentries.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-12-25 01:36:53 UTC
Arik VanClaw wrote:
Well played figuring this out. But is it really faster using Geckos then plopping out some Gardes with optimal range mods? Just now learning the power of the rattlesnake. Certainly burns through missions faster than my old CNR did.


What fit do you use with Gardes?
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#8 - 2015-12-25 02:59:08 UTC
I should try this out with my Stratios just for kicks. I might actually put a pair of Geckos back in the hold.

Hell, I should throw a remote ECCM on my Golem. Not a drone boat, but hobs WITHOUT an hp buff tend to die faster than the drone hp readouts can register damage on the off chance they draw fire. Suggish drone UI, often slow response time from drones when giving them orders, and the fact that rats have a hard time hitting a stationary battleship, but a light scout drone going over 3Km is apparently easy-peasy-lemon-squeezie to hit...none of that really helps, especially non-drone boats using unbonused drones.

And, for the record, not all EWAR pisses them off. In fact, they seem to actually ignore EWAR most of the time, except EWAR drones. Now those, rats will move Heaven and earth to swat them. Otherwise, they will ignore TP's, nuets/nos (not actually EWAR, but same general purpose), damps, and tackle. Haven't ever tried jammers, so can't really say for sure if that gets the same reaction.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2015-12-25 03:20:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Otherwise, they will ignore TP's, nuets/nos (not actually EWAR, but same general purpose), damps, and tackle. Haven't ever tried jammers, so can't really say for sure if that gets the same reaction.

I'm not sure if remote ECCM is more powerful than ECM bursts, but ECM bursts are prohibitive in most missions due to the proximity of Acceleration Gates and altogether to easy to bring about CONCORD's wrath.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2015-12-25 05:43:01 UTC
hmm wonder if this would help at all vs the burner ashimmu, that thing has been very anti drone lately.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#11 - 2015-12-25 05:44:44 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
hmm wonder if this would help at all vs the burner ashimmu, that thing has been very anti drone lately.

Can you spare the mid slot on the Gila though?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#12 - 2015-12-25 07:17:46 UTC
Well done OP.

Threadworthy.

@JerryTPepridge
Arik VanClaw
The Emet Corporation
#13 - 2015-12-25 20:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Arik VanClaw
Daniela Doran wrote:
Arik VanClaw wrote:
Well played figuring this out. But is it really faster using Geckos then plopping out some Gardes with optimal range mods? Just now learning the power of the rattlesnake. Certainly burns through missions faster than my old CNR did.


What fit do you use with Gardes?


Edited for my fit:

Mission Rattler

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Hobgoblin II x10
Garde II x5

---Fitting is tight, with max fitting skills you are left with 6CPU with the faction BCS (.4 with my skills).

With max skills DPS is 1451. Drone range is 84KM, lock range 117km and 138KM with my skills on missiles. Drop in a Gecko in place of the Garde's and DPS goes up to 1535, and you could probably mess around with the mids some since you won't need the optimal range for the sentry's.

***If you really want to get nuts, with the gecko, max skills, max damage implants and all faction damage mods (good luck not getting ganked) DPS goes up to 1720!***

This tank is sufficient if you manage aggro. I wouldn't do AE bonus room in this, trigger all spawns in Damsel, or pull full room aggro in some other high DPS missions without upping the tank.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#14 - 2015-12-26 05:59:52 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
hmm wonder if this would help at all vs the burner ashimmu, that thing has been very anti drone lately.

Can you spare the mid slot on the Gila though?


yep. currently I have a target painter in my last mid as usually that helps with aggro, and results in slightly better hits on the frigs. the "standard" fit has a omni tracking link in the last mid.

although if the aggro works too well might want to swap the remote eccm for a resist amp, or a low slot for an spr. then again if I can use augmented drones, the mission might be finished before my tank is an issue Twisted

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#15 - 2015-12-26 08:23:21 UTC
Arik VanClaw wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Arik VanClaw wrote:
Well played figuring this out. But is it really faster using Geckos then plopping out some Gardes with optimal range mods? Just now learning the power of the rattlesnake. Certainly burns through missions faster than my old CNR did.


What fit do you use with Gardes?


Edited for my fit:

Mission Rattler

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Hobgoblin II x10
Garde II x5

---Fitting is tight, with max fitting skills you are left with 6CPU with the faction BCS (.4 with my skills).

With max skills DPS is 1451. Drone range is 84KM, lock range 117km and 138KM with my skills on missiles. Drop in a Gecko in place of the Garde's and DPS goes up to 1535, and you could probably mess around with the mids some since you won't need the optimal range for the sentry's.

***If you really want to get nuts, with the gecko, max skills, max damage implants and all faction damage mods (good luck not getting ganked) DPS goes up to 1720!***

This tank is sufficient if you manage aggro. I wouldn't do AE bonus room in this, trigger all spawns in Damsel, or pull full room aggro in some other high DPS missions without upping the tank.


4 slot tank on a rattler and you can't do ae bonus room? I do it with a 3 slot tank and mjd. Take out all the cruise and tower sentries ii and iii first and you can stay far enough away from the rest of them (make sure you go into the room with good shield and cap to survive the initial high dps).
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#16 - 2015-12-26 12:41:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
yep. currently I have a target painter in my last mid as usually that helps with aggro, and results in slightly better hits on the frigs. the "standard" fit has a omni tracking link in the last mid.

although if the aggro works too well might want to swap the remote eccm for a resist amp, or a low slot for an spr. then again if I can use augmented drones, the mission might be finished before my tank is an issue Twisted

I may have to dust off my Gila if this works... I hate restocking drones. The only downside is that you definitely have to have enough tank because the Burner and escorts will focus all their DPS entirely on you.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-12-26 13:40:03 UTC
Has anyone tested this theory out with a remote tracking module instead? Seems that would be far more useful to the Gecko's ability to surprise butt rush NPCs.
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#18 - 2015-12-26 14:34:53 UTC
And then I remembered how I was bashed in different chats for telling about managing aggro via Target Painting. Sure, it takes you actually actively locking enemies and switching targets when they go pop, but it also gives you quite some effective tracking (due to how it works, single TP on all 5 will give you bout 38.9% against frigates and 38.7% against cruiser rat for the Gecko). Still, this solution was meant for you-know-which-drone-hull, not battleships locking targets as fast as you grill chicken.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2015-12-26 14:39:08 UTC
Leila Meurtrier wrote:
And then I remembered how I was bashed in different chats for telling about managing aggro via Target Painting. Sure, it takes you actually actively locking enemies and switching targets when they go pop, but it also gives you quite some effective tracking (due to how it works, single TP on all 5 will give you bout 38.9% against frigates and 38.7% against cruiser rat for the Gecko). Still, this solution was meant for you-know-which-drone-hull, not battleships locking targets as fast as you grill chicken.



I think the reason the ECCM works is the constant use. Once NPCs switch to drone agro they normally don't try and relock you. So the time it takes to drop TP cycle on a dead target and switch, your drones are already doomed.

ECCM or RemSeBo or RemTrack would be constant on your gecko, never allowing the NPC to switch off their Primary.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#20 - 2015-12-26 14:47:45 UTC
Leila Meurtrier wrote:
And then I remembered how I was bashed in different chats for telling about managing aggro via Target Painting. Sure, it takes you actually actively locking enemies and switching targets when they go pop, but it also gives you quite some effective tracking (due to how it works, single TP on all 5 will give you bout 38.9% against frigates and 38.7% against cruiser rat for the Gecko). Still, this solution was meant for you-know-which-drone-hull, not battleships locking targets as fast as you grill chicken.

Target painters won't work. While it does help with damage application, it won't help keeping NPCs off your drones (eventually they go after them, you need to recall and then your DPS drops into the toilet). They're somewhere in the middle when it comes to managing NPC aggro, with EW being at the top.

Remote ECCM has a 72km range and low power usage, so you can reliably use it with any number of drones all the time. As you can see from the above list, I've run a substantial number of missions with Geckos as the primary weapon in conjunction with remote ECCM and they haven't so much as received a scratch.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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