Ships & Modules

Greetings,

I'm looking for some thoughts on improving my Ishkur for PVP fighting in low sec.
Right now I'm flying with 2 other ships as support so i'm not alone.
My current ship was blown up today. Ishkur kill report

So I changed up the fitting a little because I was outran in my afterburner setup.
In that battle the ship turned around after 50km distance and hit me very hard taking me out in ~60 secs since I was alone.
Not sure what else I could do for that situation but I had been doing damage to him at a distance with my drones prior
to my explosion

So I refitted with a microwarp but not sure if that is best? Along with my weapon setup.

HIGH SLOTS:
Light Ion Blaster II - Null S Ammo (falloff range 6km, optimal 3)
Light Ion Blaster II - Null S Ammo
Light Ion Blaster II - Null S Ammo
Small ghoul compact energy nosferatu

MID:
Balmer series compact tracking disrupter I
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
--Empty--

LOW:
Drone damage amplifier II
Energized Explosive Membrane I
Small Armor repairer II
Damage Control II

RIG:
Small capacitor control circuit
Small processor overclocking unit II

Drones:
Hobgoblin II, 5 of them.

CPU 29/212
Power Grid 0.9/52
Cap depletes with everything on in 25 secs

Seems like with the recent battle where I died I couldn't get in range because the afterburner and couldn't use the blasters.
Also my shield defense for EM is 0. Rest of the shield/armor hit points are nice.

Any thoughts on improving this ship?

Okay... let's run down a few things.

- In PvP you always need a "point." Use Warp Disruptors if you are going to perform ranged tactics, use Warp Scramblers if you are going to brawl at close range (to turn off an opponent's Microwardrive... if they have one).
The reason for this is simple; you don't want your opponent to just escape as soon as they realize they are going to lose.

- If you are going to brawl at close range (as you must if you use Blasters) you also need a Stasis Webifier. This allows you to control range in a fight by reducing an opponent's speed by 50 to 60%.

- Choosing between a Microwarpdrive or an Afterburner really comes down to target selection.
If you are going to engage smaller, faster ships and/or chase down targets then a MWD will be the better option as it gives a much higher speed boost to run down targets (it'll still be pretty slow compared to really fast Frigates though).
If you are going to engage at very close range and/or big, fat, slow ships an Afterburner will give you more survivability by giving you additional range control and not blowing up your "sensor footprint" (which is important against big ships as their guns have trouble hitting ships will smaller "sensor footprints").

- Toss the Capacitor Control Circuit rigs. When in PvP, your goal should be to maximize the ship's strengths for maximum performance in a short time period. Certain weaknesses (like capacitor power) can be worked around with a little micromanagement.
Plus, CCCs don't provide enough capacitor power recharge for the things you want to do.


Here are some [arguably] better fits:
(NOTE: as with any fit that I post, use this as a template. If you have fitting issues or think something else might work better, fiddle with the fit)


[Ishkur, Full Brawling]

Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste (OR a Small Armor Repairer II)
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive (OR a 1MN Afterburner II)
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


NOTES:
- This fit can either go full brawl with an Afterburner or it can be a "heavy tackler" for groups with a MWD. Be mindful of what you are trying to do. Avoid faster ships when using an Afterburner (because you won't be able to touch them) and avoid using the MWD when you are at close range (because the module will light up your "sensor footprint" like a Christmas tree when active).
- The Nosferatu is there to syphon off enough capacitor to PULSE your armor repairer when you need it (it should never be on ALL the time unless you are in a sticky situation... in which case, you guns should be overloaded).
- The Explosive Rig is there to cover a resistance hole you have.
- The Auxillary Nano Pump enhances your repairing power by giving you more HP for every repping cycle.
- The ECM drones are there for targets that you don't want to be entangled with. Keep in mind that they are chance based, so they won't always work.
- Faction Antimatter ammo will always be superior on a ship with no gun tracking bonus. But Null ammo is pretty useful against scram-kiters. Keep Antimatter loaded with Null as a good secondary.


[Ishkur, Armor Kiter]

Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste (OR a Small Armor Repairer II)
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II

125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S
[empty high slot]

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Warrior II x5
Acolyte II x5


NOTE:
- This fit I developed because I was bored and wanted to see if a kiting drone fit was at all possible. I was a little bit surprised by the result.
- Since this fit is not intended to be at close range (at all) I dumped the Nos and the Web in favor of a Capacitor Booster... which grants me greater endurance over the short term.
- Against a slower opponent, the greatest risk I run is that my target will kill my drones. So I got rid of the ECM (see: dishonor) drones and loaded up spare damage dealing drones.
- This ship is still pretty slow (by an order of magnitude) compared to a lot of other frigates... but it is also much tougher (see: getting pinned down won't always be an assured death).
- Try not to get closer than 15km from your target. Your edge with this ship is range. Use it to your advantage.
- If anything gets too close... load up Javelin ammo, overload your guns, and pray.

Sheeth Athonille:
Thanks for your help. Guess I will double think the mwd then
I'll defiantly try out the sensor damper! Nice idea.
Good point on not fighting a Orthurs alone , haha

ShahFluffers:
Thank you so much for your very detailed help. You really gave me some excellent insight. To bad its Sunday night, I'm itching to try all these thoughts out right now!! I will try those fitting outs and thanks for taking the time to write/share them. Glad the Ishkur is still a good ship to use.

Kethen T'val:
I think I learned my lesson on the Orthrus, I should run away!
Thanks for the feedback on the tracking disrupter. I'll keep that in mind. I'll also get rid of the cap rigs and try a rep rig instead.
Whats a SAAB? Couldn't find any info on it thru google.

ShahFluffers, Thanks for the follow up post and answer to my question on SAAB.

Since you were so nice to offer up to fitting options I do have one more question on one of the fits or actually both I suppose.
What ship fitting would be better as a new PVP pilot if I'm on point? Mind you I've only been playing Eve for about 9 months and doing PVP for just a few weekends. Seems like to my naive eye that a Ishkur Brawler would be easier to master first and then the Kiter since kitting is another tactic in itself?

Ishkur thread shah, obviously iv been reading it.

op don't listen to him, im terrible at eve (just somewhat less so than most i have shot at)
[Ishkur, OH GOD GET IT OFF ME]
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Small Capacitor Booster II,Navy Cap Booster 150

Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Light Ion Blaster II,Void S
Light Ion Blaster II,Void S
Light Ion Blaster II,Void S

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Anti-Explosive Pump II


Hobgoblin II 5

Warrior II 5

adding halo implants in there will drop your sig radius to the size of a drone,
links will shave it down to the size of a light drone making you damn hard for anything larger than a destroyer to force off, let alone kill.
More so the bigger the target.

the only thing is you need to learn how to recognise what rapid light launchers look like on the ship models,
which hulls will typically fit them because they're the explicit counter to the tactic you are capitalising on.

Here is some further reading from my old ceo on the topic,
bear in mind that the article is aimed at mission flipping in high-sec and assumes that you are both "solo" and specifically looking for the biggest thing you can find in space to start chewing on
so with this fit you want to avoid small fast stuff unless you can start the engagement right on top of it and kill it before it can pull range.

avoid the blaster hecate like the plague though.


i have seen this fit kill 1b+ isk t3 cruisers and blinged out pvp fit marauders so it is tried and tested.

this was written by Moon Moon about a fight he was involved in with us prior to joining up with us and is a short accout of Smitty (is actually much better at this than i am) savaging a group he had no right surviving, using the fit i posted there.

Thanks for your help everyone



I was thinking of tackling duty but I'm not to familiar with the whole idea yet, gotta do some more reading :)




I like the idea of kiting to escape if things turn south but I feel like chronologically I might try brawling still and then try kitting after I get more experience but now that I've said that I suppose I could go either way.

I actually used to fly the Tristan and liked it. When you mean I could experiment with it do you mean actual PVP practice or dualing with it?
I would think the Tristan would be popped quickly in a real PVP although helpful for learning and less costly I'd think running back to a station and refitting might get me upset as it usually does.

Thanks for the shout out to Ralph King-Griffin.


LOL. Thanks for your help :)

Thanks for the wonderful links to the articles. got a lot of reading this weekend! :)

I started fitting up my ship last night and tonight. I'm having trouble locating the "Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I" is it no longer available?
Any reason to just use that or would another energy neutralizer work?

I also picked up a Halo Epsilon implant for slot 5 (-2%). I assuming I need a set to have more effect though.

Good point, 600dps is high for me. I'm glad he had a nice ship and it wasn't all my piloting ;)

Energy neuts were just rebalanced and the names of the meta versions were changed slightly. You can use any neut that will fit, though they have slightly different strengths (fitting, neut amount, etc.)

The prices also plummeted so it's a good time to buy them. I'm acutely aware of this since I was sitting on several hundred in Jita at the time.

PS: It looks like you've been picking fights in my old haunt. I've got to say, Genesis is a pretty terrible place to find a decent fight in an Ishkur. I've been blopsed on for less.

Tackling = holding down a target for your fleetmates.

Brawling = fighting inside scram range.

MWD allows you to close quickly with your target. AB allows range dictation once the fight has started.

EDIT: Blackrise and Placid are going off atm. So both are very good for frigate pvp.

AF's are bad for PvP outside of highsec baiting.

Here are three fits that work quite well;

[Ishkur, Type A [Bulk]]
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Small Knave Scoped Energy Nosferatu

Small Transverse Bulkhead II
Small Transverse Bulkhead II

Hobgoblin II x5

[Ishkur, Type B [Rep]]
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane
Adaptive Nano Plating II

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Small Knave Scoped Energy Nosferatu

Small Transverse Bulkhead II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II

Acolyte II x5

[Ishkur, Type S [Algos]]
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Drone Damage Amplifier II
200mm Steel Plates II

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Energy Nosferatu II

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator II
Small Transverse Bulkhead II

Acolyte II x5

All of these fly slightly different and work against different things.
Folks who say "AFs don't work outside of Empire niche pvp" are people who don't know how to fit or fly AFs.