These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2841 - 2015-12-12 14:22:35 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
You are kinda mixing stuff here. First off, a drop in PCU does not equal players lost, second I basically just mentioned that for the last month there are not netto drop in PCUs. That was all.
Looking objectively at player averages though, the count is down which doesn't absolutely mean a loss of players but certainly suggests it strongly.

sero Hita wrote:
If we play, that we have a serious discussion, what would a statement like this bring to the table? It is just bitter bile, based on nothing. I keep being dissapointed of the discussion levels on the internet. When you are classical trained, you expect people to adhere to certain rules when discussing. Tbh. the internet is just about screaming loudest, without listening. It is indeed sad.
I'd say his comment is more based on the fact that More money is being put into valkyrie and the level of development do seem to be dropping for EVE. I mean come on, they called the last release "the december release" because they couldn't be bothered to come up with a fancy name for it.

And I don't blame them for it. EVE is an old game, and games don't last forever. Moving into new products is the only way they can realistically hope to grow.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2842 - 2015-12-12 15:24:47 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Lucas Kell wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
You are kinda mixing stuff here. First off, a drop in PCU does not equal players lost, second I basically just mentioned that for the last month there are not netto drop in PCUs. That was all.
Looking objectively at player averages though, the count is down which doesn't absolutely mean a loss of players but certainly suggests it strongly..


I did not claim otherwise. Again I was just noting that the decline in PCU seems to have stabilized in the last month. I was not stating anything about that it has not dropped. Neither do I have any interest in discussing if it dropped in the last year, as it clearly did. Learn to read people.

sero Hita wrote:
If we play, that we have a serious discussion, what would a statement like this bring to the table? It is just bitter bile, based on nothing. I keep being dissapointed of the discussion levels on the internet. When you are classical trained, you expect people to adhere to certain rules when discussing. Tbh. the internet is just about screaming loudest, without listening. It is indeed sad.


Lucas Kell wrote:

I'd say his comment is more based on the fact that More money is being put into valkyrie and the level of development do seem to be dropping for EVE. I mean come on, they called the last release "the december release" because they couldn't be bothered to come up with a fancy name for it.

And I don't blame them for it. EVE is an old game, and games don't last forever. Moving into new products is the only way they can realistically hope to grow.



Again this does not have anything to do, with what I was stating. He was replying to my post. Even if they are channeling money into valkyrie, what does that comment bring into this discussion? He always makes his points in this weird malevolent way (hah hah suckers your game will be replaced by valkyrie), like he is secretly happy that the PCU numbers are dropping. These kind of comments do not contribute to the discussion, he just get to air his Schadenfreude. I don't care if they skip EVE for Valkyrie, I always land on my legs gaming wise. There are other games. I just don't see the point of his comments. That was what I was replying to in regard with the quality of discussion on the internet going down.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Top Guac
Doomheim
#2843 - 2015-12-12 15:36:37 UTC
Wasn't Market McSelling Alt only a few pages back claiming that we were hitting critical levels of decline and that Valkyrie is going to be a failure?

Pretty much someone that's it's safe to ignore.

He gets the Daily Quac award though for James Beam levels of BS.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2844 - 2015-12-12 18:37:48 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Wasn't Market McSelling Alt only a few pages back claiming that we were hitting critical levels of decline and that Valkyrie is going to be a failure?

Pretty much someone that's it's safe to ignore.

He gets the Daily Quac award though for James Beam levels of BS.


over 33K on right now!

Point out that when I started eve, a saturday afternoon never was that high. There are fewer alts in eve too. Lets keep up the good work and keep on communicating with CCP to make this game phenominal.

At this time, we really ought to not think of this as a game, but right back at early access. Recent development and player communication initiatives all follow a proper kickstarter/early access configuration!

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2845 - 2015-12-12 18:53:59 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
sero Hita wrote:
You are kinda mixing stuff here. First off, a drop in PCU does not equal players lost, second I basically just mentioned that for the last month there are not netto drop in PCUs. That was all.
Looking objectively at player averages though, the count is down which doesn't absolutely mean a loss of players but certainly suggests it strongly.

sero Hita wrote:
If we play, that we have a serious discussion, what would a statement like this bring to the table? It is just bitter bile, based on nothing. I keep being dissapointed of the discussion levels on the internet. When you are classical trained, you expect people to adhere to certain rules when discussing. Tbh. the internet is just about screaming loudest, without listening. It is indeed sad.
I'd say his comment is more based on the fact that More money is being put into valkyrie and the level of development do seem to be dropping for EVE. I mean come on, they called the last release "the december release" because they couldn't be bothered to come up with a fancy name for it.

And I don't blame them for it. EVE is an old game, and games don't last forever. Moving into new products is the only way they can realistically hope to grow.



Some people keep getting stuck on the idea that max players per day is the number we should be looking at. I don't care if max players per day goes up or down. I am looking heavily at average player per day and the max per time zone.

US TZ is heavily down, we are topping out in Eve now around 2pm Chicago when before US TZ was very healthy.
AU TZ is heavily down too. EU seems to be holding a bit better but still obviously down.

People want to guac award me and poke fun, I don't care about that. It doesn't change the situation, it doesn't boost the numbers.

I don't really care what course of action CCP takes, boost null, boost high, nerf something, reset the server. Doesn't matter at this point what course of action they take as long as they acknowledge the problem and stop pretending it doesn't exist.

CCP clearly doesn't care about the numbers drop, they have justified it in every way possible just like the posters here have. But the reason CCP doesn't care is because they are actively looking for replacement income so Eve isn't their boat anchor any longer.

Furthermore I don't know or care if Valkyrie will be a success or failure. Track record indicates CCP will fall on their face and Eve will suffer because of it.

I don't fault a company for trying to break out of the one trick pony business, I fault them for abandoning their thoroughbred each time they think they have a shot at something new.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
David Therman
#2846 - 2015-12-12 19:51:53 UTC
Just to note, there was a sale on Steam during the middle of this week for Eve (something like 75% off for the starter pack) so there's a fresh intake of new players/alts.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2847 - 2015-12-12 20:46:09 UTC
David Therman wrote:
Just to note, there was a sale on Steam during the middle of this week for Eve (something like 75% off for the starter pack) so there's a fresh intake of new players/alts.



New character creation jumped from 100-150 per day to 250-300 per day for about 4 days.

However even at 250 characters per day we are probably bleeding more than getting in fresh blood. And we know player retention after the first month is less than half.

Like I said before, character creation is a leading indicator and the new creations are at pre-2009 levels.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2848 - 2015-12-12 20:57:01 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Top Guac wrote:
Wasn't Market McSelling Alt only a few pages back claiming that we were hitting critical levels of decline and that Valkyrie is going to be a failure?

Pretty much someone that's it's safe to ignore.

He gets the Daily Quac award though for James Beam levels of BS.


over 33K on right now!

Point out that when I started eve, a saturday afternoon never was that high. There are fewer alts in eve too. Lets keep up the good work and keep on communicating with CCP to make this game phenominal.

At this time, we really ought to not think of this as a game, but right back at early access. Recent development and player communication initiatives all follow a proper kickstarter/early access configuration!

over 33k player accounts logged online ?
I saw over 19k last time.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2849 - 2015-12-12 21:12:48 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
Top Guac wrote:
Wasn't Market McSelling Alt only a few pages back claiming that we were hitting critical levels of decline and that Valkyrie is going to be a failure?

Pretty much someone that's it's safe to ignore.

He gets the Daily Quac award though for James Beam levels of BS.


over 33K on right now!

Point out that when I started eve, a saturday afternoon never was that high. There are fewer alts in eve too. Lets keep up the good work and keep on communicating with CCP to make this game phenominal.

At this time, we really ought to not think of this as a game, but right back at early access. Recent development and player communication initiatives all follow a proper kickstarter/early access configuration!

over 33k player accounts logged online ?
I saw over 19k last time.


34496 on right now.

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2850 - 2015-12-12 21:41:31 UTC
Exactly. So this thread is nothing but lots of drama, attention whoring, faking "stats" and using terrible "logic" to try and persuade people of the agenda some folks are pushing. They tried so hard, alternating alts and logic, adapting their lies to frantically create a truth that simply doesn't exist.

Just close this thread, it's way past its shelf life.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#2851 - 2015-12-12 22:37:53 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Exactly. So this thread is nothing but lots of drama, attention whoring, faking "stats" and using terrible "logic" to try and persuade people of the agenda some folks are pushing. They tried so hard, alternating alts and logic, adapting their lies to frantically create a truth that simply doesn't exist.

Just close this thread, it's way past its shelf life.



You seem to have a very strong emotional attachment to denying there is any problem... Hey, it is just a game. Games come and go. This one still has a chance, CCP needs to just focus a little.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2852 - 2015-12-13 04:32:19 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Wasn't Market McSelling Alt only a few pages back claiming that we were hitting critical levels of decline and that Valkyrie is going to be a failure?

Pretty much someone that's it's safe to ignore.

He gets the Daily Quac award though for James Beam levels of BS.


Valkyrie is not going to be a failure because it does not depend on EVE to be a sucess, but rather the Oculus Rift fate. That said, there has always been a high demand for the Rift DK2. If you want one now as they have stopped making them in preparation for the consumer version, be prepared to shell out $500.

But if the Oculus Rift becomes wildly sucessful, it might me the end of the games that do not use VR which means EVE.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2853 - 2015-12-13 06:57:37 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:


Valkyrie is not going to be a failure because it does not depend on EVE to be a sucess, but rather the Oculus Rift fate. That said, there has always been a high demand for the Rift DK2. If you want one now as they have stopped making them in preparation for the consumer version, be prepared to shell out $500.

But if the Oculus Rift becomes wildly sucessful, it might me the end of the games that do not use VR which means EVE.


Unless they can VR eve... perhaps that is why the visual change... hrm?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#2854 - 2015-12-13 07:36:39 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
[quote=Top Guac]Wasn't Market McSelling Alt only a few pages back claiming that we were hitting critical levels of decline and that Valkyrie is going to be a failure?

Pretty much someone that's it's safe to ignore.

He gets the Daily Quac award though for James Beam levels of BS.


Dust is not a failure. Its making money as of march of this year, that is not fail.

Gunjack seems to be selling rather well on gearVR, at least 400 reviews and its a top seller. Though without more data we dunno how well.

The only game of ccp's so far that has failed is WoD and that's cause it was canceled. your argument of failures is pretty stupid. And most a lot of people are going to buy the rift. so we will see.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2855 - 2015-12-13 07:57:32 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
If you want one now as they have stopped making them in preparation for the consumer version, be prepared to shell out $500.

But if the Oculus Rift becomes wildly sucessful, it might me the end of the games that do not use VR which means EVE.


Your continued whining is hilarious and entertaining.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2856 - 2015-12-13 09:20:42 UTC
Avvy wrote:
So EvE isn't as different as you would like to believe.


Bravo!
You nailed it.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#2857 - 2015-12-13 09:53:07 UTC
sero Hita wrote:
I did not claim otherwise. Again I was just noting that the decline in PCU seems to have stabilized in the last month. I was not stating anything about that it has not dropped. Neither do I have any interest in discussing if it dropped in the last year, as it clearly did. Learn to read people.
So pretending the last year of incredibly drops in player login counts didn't happen does what?

sero Hita wrote:
Again this does not have anything to do, with what I was stating. He was replying to my post. Even if they are channeling money into valkyrie, what does that comment bring into this discussion? He always makes his points in this weird malevolent way (hah hah suckers your game will be replaced by valkyrie), like he is secretly happy that the PCU numbers are dropping. These kind of comments do not contribute to the discussion, he just get to air his Schadenfreude. I don't care if they skip EVE for Valkyrie, I always land on my legs gaming wise. There are other games. I just don't see the point of his comments. That was what I was replying to in regard with the quality of discussion on the internet going down.
It has to do with the subject of the thread though, as it's an explanation for why CCP seem to be uninterested in reversing the trend of dropping player counts. What you feel the motivations behind his comments are is irrelevant.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2858 - 2015-12-13 09:54:32 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
The thing is you can argue the terminology until the end of time, but what does it accomplish? Even if somehow you convince everyone to universally agree that everything in EVE is PvP, they'll then start arguing over "carebear PvP" vs "Pew Pew PvP". At the end of the day the issue is that some people can't deal with other people not playing their way, but that's irrelevant when talking about how mechanics are to players who use them.


Some understand this, but not enough...
Sadly this is one circle that threads in GD tend to take.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2859 - 2015-12-13 10:17:56 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Lucas Kell wrote:
EVE is an old game, and games don't last forever. Moving into new products is the only way they can realistically hope to grow.


I beg to differ:
This are the time where MMOs exist for a while now.
Looking at WoW, those games can last very long, BUT:
(including EvE)
Since they exists for a long time now, they might need some major changes.
Changes that maybe disliked by a somewhat large group of players.
Those changes could attract more players to compensate for those leaving, but thats very unsure.
So neither Blizzard nor CCP dare to make massive changes.
Still i think the development is not over.

Watching the discussions for a while now, i understand CCPs hardships very well.

Oh, and more:
Who has build a (formerly) successfull Space MMO, so one (CCP) can take his suggestions seriously?

Ppl waddling over plex prices or PvP vs PvE are unable to grasp basic problems and are ignored, since their solutions will most likely not help... (nothing personal guys, just a fact)
Bear

Edit:
of course CCP will try to get another mainstay...
and another...
Thats nothing to blame CCP for, quite the opposite.
Whereas MMOs like EvE and WoW are cows to milk over a long time, other games are more like short time money injections.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#2860 - 2015-12-13 10:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Heth
They don't have to make massive changes at all, niche products work just fine as long as they stay true to their niche. Marmite (the brand, not the alliance) is a good example: Overall people don't like it, a vast majority wouldn't even eat it if they were paid to do so but it appeals to a specific group of customers, a group that stays loyal, doesn't really shrink and in fact actually grows because there's always new folks who tried it and actually like it. According to many people's... logic in this thread Marmite should change its recipe and taste to appeal to a majority of customers but that would mean two things:

1) it would alienate its initial customers who will stop using it
2) it would have to start competing with other, more main stream, products and as those get updated very regularly they would be forced to do the same or become forgotten


It is the same with EVE: the second CCP decides that they want to compete with other MMOs in regards to play style, f2p pricing strategy and choices, content, polish, difficulty and PVE focus is the second they are forced to forever join the rat race to update and add to the PVE part of the game to keep the fickle PVE players happy, because if they don't they'll move to the next new fad. The game isn't capable of doing that because it would require a massive rewrite, in fact it would probably be cheaper to start from scratch, and to what end? So that they will have to work harder and compete more, spending more, to get more people in? Why? What's the point?


By staying true to its niche and improving upon it, while not losing sight of its roots, the game will always attract a specific type of player which will always exist. And the more other companies do the f2p, easy mode nonsense the more people who play that will get fed up with it because they feel like they're being treated like a 5 year old and will look for something better. How many other competitors are out there? One, and that one is hilariously terrible. Build it and they will come.

By staying true to its niche EVE ensures its place amongst other MMO's and ensures slow but stable grow. Wanting some better PVE experience is fine but the whole "CCP you better turn this ship around cause I see icebergs in front of us, hell and doom awaits us!" is silly and, I would hope, no one falls for that.


There's no reason, nor point, to massively change anything at all. Update and improve yes, doing an NGE no.