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To CCP: Who owns the copyright to my portrait?

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Joe Censored
Wok The Dog
Naga Please.
#1 - 2015-12-10 21:10:55 UTC
Who owns the copyright to my character portrait I created? Do I having used CCP's tools to create it own rights to it, in the same way that using Adobe's photoshop to create an image still allows me copyright? Does CCP alone hold the copyright? Is this already covered in the TOS?

This is in reference to use of my character portrait for commercial purposes, specifically a game development company to be called Joe Censored Games. I'd like to find out if use of my character portrait in company logo or website art is considered a violation of CCP copyright. Thanks

-Joe
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2 - 2015-12-10 21:11:45 UTC
CCP owns it and it is in the EULA/TOS.
Joe Censored
Wok The Dog
Naga Please.
#3 - 2015-12-10 21:12:50 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
CCP owns it and it is in the EULA/TOS.


That's what I was looking for, thanks
Solecist Project
#4 - 2015-12-10 21:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Have you actually read the ToS and EULA ?

You're not allowed to use it. It's not your IP.
If you want to do anything and actually are serious, then send them a mail.

Asking on the forums makes everyone doubt your legitimacy.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
CCP owns it and it is in the EULA/TOS.



PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF :P

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#5 - 2015-12-10 21:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Joe Censored wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
CCP owns it and it is in the EULA/TOS.


That's what I was looking for, thanks

The specific restriction in relation to characters is in Part 10 (A) of the EULA:

A. Ownership of Software, System and Game

As between you and CCP, CCP is the sole and exclusive owner of the Software, System, Game and Game Content (as defined below). The Software, System, Game and all Game Content are protected by law governing copyrights, trademarks and other proprietary rights. CCP reserves all rights not expressly granted herein.

The Game is comprised of, without limitation, software code, programs, routines, subroutines, objects, files, data, characters (and items, currency, objects and attributes comprising or associated with a character or an Account), graphics, sound effects, music, animation, video, text, content, layout, design and other information downloaded from and accessible through the System (collectively, the "Game Content"). CCP, its affiliates, licensors and/or suppliers retain all of their right, title and interest (including without limitation all intellectual property rights) in and to the Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and no rights thereto are transferred to you, except for the limited license granted above.

Also, relevant from Part 10 (B)

B. Rights to Certain Content

Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.

Additionally, we have no right to create derivative works from our characters as outlined in Part 9 (C):

You may not copy, distribute, rent, lease, loan, modify or create derivative works of, adapt, translate, perform, display, sublicense or transfer any information accessible through the System, including without limitation, any part of the Game Content or User Content, or any item, object or character in your Account, except that, solely to the extent permitted by the System, you may modify certain Game Content and User Content only for your own purposes in playing the Game.

http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/

However, CCP does have policies on use of certain things (eg. like our portrait files) in third-party applications, etc. without breaching the EULA:

http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-12-10 21:16:20 UTC
are you the guy that asked earlier about the perma ban and getting a refund? is it silly question day today? Shocked

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#7 - 2015-12-10 21:19:46 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
is it silly question day today? Shocked


No way you are new here. This is GD. Every day is Silly Question Day!

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Joe Censored
Wok The Dog
Naga Please.
#8 - 2015-12-10 21:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Censored
Solecist Project wrote:
Have you actually read the ToS and EULA ?

You're not allowed to use it. It's not your IP.
If you want to do anything and actually are serious, then send them a mail.

Asking on the forums makes everyone doubt your legitimacy.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
CCP owns it and it is in the EULA/TOS.



PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF :P


I asked on the forums because I knew sending CCP an email would get a response in days, while the forum would get a reasonably knowledgeable response in minutes as evidenced here.

Thanks Scipio Artelius specifically.


Lan Wang wrote:
are you the guy that asked earlier about the perma ban and getting a refund? is it silly question day today? Shocked


No

Thanks to everyone who responded :)
Orla- King-Griffin
#9 - 2015-12-10 21:50:22 UTC
Joe Censored wrote:
he forum would get a reasonably knowledgeable response in minutes as evidenced here.

Shocked
Hell has frozen over ,FROZEN I TELL YOU!

Ah shite...
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#10 - 2015-12-10 22:43:35 UTC
Orla- King-Griffin wrote:
Your portrait



Burn it with fire

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Tisiphone Dira
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-12-11 05:30:09 UTC
I don't see anything wrong with her portrait

There once was a ganker named tisi

A stunningly beautiful missy

To gank a gross miner

There is nothing finer, cept when they get all pissy
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-12-11 08:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Otso Bakarti
Scipio Artelius, changed the look eh? Nice.

OP: Uh...not to put too fine a point on anything, but...nevermind.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-12-11 11:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaska Iskalar
Joe Censored wrote:
Who owns the copyright to my character portrait I created? Do I having used CCP's tools to create it own rights to it, in the same way that using Adobe's photoshop to create an image still allows me copyright? Does CCP alone hold the copyright? Is this already covered in the TOS?

This is in reference to use of my character portrait for commercial purposes, specifically a game development company to be called Joe Censored Games. I'd like to find out if use of my character portrait in company logo or website art is considered a violation of CCP copyright. Thanks

-Joe

Does Adobe own the rights to anything you make in Photoshop? No. Using someone's tools doesn't entitle them to the work produced with the tools. Although in this case CCP has copyright to some parts of characters that are premade, such as the hair styles and jewelry and such. I would argue that it's covered by fair use in the US because character creation is transformative, like collages. There's no telling how it would hold up in court though. Too much US law is subjective and vaguely defined. I have no idea what Iceland copyright law is like either. It's a pretty bad idea to not make your own model if you're using it for branding for a game company though. It doesn't speak highly of your modeler.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
CCP owns it and it is in the EULA/TOS.

EULAs aren't legally binding. At best it could be considered permission for CCP to use the portrait.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-12-11 11:35:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
Joe Censored wrote:
Who owns the copyright to my character portrait I created? Do I having used CCP's tools to create it own rights to it, in the same way that using Adobe's photoshop to create an image still allows me copyright? Does CCP alone hold the copyright? Is this already covered in the TOS?

This is in reference to use of my character portrait for commercial purposes, specifically a game development company to be called Joe Censored Games. I'd like to find out if use of my character portrait in company logo or website art is considered a violation of CCP copyright. Thanks

-Joe

CCP will probably say they do, although I would argue that it's covered by fair use in the US because character creation is transformative. I have no idea what Iceland copyright law is like though. It's a pretty bad idea to not make your own model if you're using it for branding for a game company though. It doesn't speak highly of your modeler.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
CCP owns it and it is in the EULA/TOS.

EULAs aren't legally binding. At best it could be considered permission for CCP to use the portrait.


Can you please explain in more detail how you seem to think you could gain the copyright to an avatar in a game not owned by you? none of the assets used in avatars are owned or created by players

and no photoshop does not create images for you, you need to do that yourself

this is even worse than the corp logo discussions around copyright

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#15 - 2015-12-11 11:41:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaska Iskalar
Lan Wang wrote:
Can you please explain in more detail how you seem to think you could gain the copyright to an avatar in a game not owned by you?

It's covered by multiple aspects of fair use. Like I already said, I think it counts as transformative in the same way that collages do. CCP didn't make the avatar, they made some of its constituent parts.The other thing is that it doesn't supersede the use of the original work. There's no way his website can be used as an avatar in Eve.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-12-11 11:50:51 UTC
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Can you please explain in more detail how you seem to think you could gain the copyright to an avatar in a game not owned by you?

It's covered by multiple aspects of fair use. Like I already said, I think it counts as transformative in the same way that collages do. CCP didn't make the avatar, they made some of its constituent parts.The other thing is that it doesn't supersede the use of the original work. There's no way his website can be used as an avatar in Eve.


I actually done some research, didnt see your post above sorry.

http://www.jetlaw.org/journal-archives/volume-14/volume-14-issue-4/who-owns-an-avatar-copyright-creativity-and-virtual-worlds/

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-12-11 11:52:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaska Iskalar
Also, the amount and substantiality of the portion used. The character portrait is a very very tiny part of Eve, and isn't related to gameplay at all.
Solecist Project
#18 - 2015-12-11 11:55:55 UTC
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
Also, the amount and substantiality of the portion used. The character portrait is a very very tiny part of Eve, and isn't related to gameplay at all.

That is not true, because social interaction is part of the gameplay
and proper looking avatars create interesting social interactions.

Making ISK from screenshots alone is a thing... :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Kaska Iskalar
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-12-11 11:57:06 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
Also, the amount and substantiality of the portion used. The character portrait is a very very tiny part of Eve, and isn't related to gameplay at all.

That is not true, because social interaction is part of the gameplay
and proper looking avatars create interesting social interactions.

Making ISK from screenshots alone is a thing... :)

By that logic Reddit is an MMO.
Solecist Project
#20 - 2015-12-11 13:15:48 UTC
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Kaska Iskalar wrote:
Also, the amount and substantiality of the portion used. The character portrait is a very very tiny part of Eve, and isn't related to gameplay at all.

That is not true, because social interaction is part of the gameplay
and proper looking avatars create interesting social interactions.

Making ISK from screenshots alone is a thing... :)

By that logic Reddit is an MMO.

Not comparable at all.
I understand if you are having a hard time believing it, but it's actual reality.

I'm sure someone here can confirm that I'm not speaking rubbish. :)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
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