Warfare & Tactics

And i think flying around in anti frigate faction cruisers complaining about getting blobbed by frigates all day is lame.

In faction war you dont always get the choice where you engage war targets or what they are flying. You also dont get the choice to always enter a plex first.

See a gang in a plex and you dont have an evenly capable gang? Well, write it off, no combat for either side. You enter a different plex and they dont fancy risking a brawl at the warp in? Thats 2 plexes with no combat.

This happens anyway. But boosts certainly offer different options to deal with this common scenario.

So you reject my points with baseless assertions then back up my points with a reference to high ground advantage?

Most people who use boosts already have extremely tactical fits, the changes will just reduce engagement envelopes for a great number of people. Suggesting that it will not have a cooling effect on PVP when the effect is narrower envelopes is quite obtuse.

Gangs that dont have boosts will still not have boosts, but gangs generally engage smaller numbers regardless. Im just pointing out those people willing to engage gangs in smaller numbers will thin out a little.

Finally, seems you are angry about plex crashing frigates, if you are happy that this change will be a fix to that edge case while any other benefit is subjective or baseless then i have to question if your perspective is of any value at all and not just bitterness?

It will also effect;

-Small/medium gangs fighting alpha fleets and/or out numbered.

-Competent kite fleets being outside recon web influence making them quite immune to armour brawlers.

-Get past 30 people per side and the subcap logi game is pretty much over without links on many hulls.

-Flying logistics with extended cycle times and reduced reps. Without links armour logi will just melt to surprisingly small gangs and their reps will be surprisingly ineffective specially on t1 hulls. Shield logi is already flimsy in many cases, no links will make them iffy at the best of times.

-System pushes where the use of links allows otherwise weak doctrines to shine assuming skilled use.

-And just about every other facet of organised small/med/large gang pvp.


All of which i participate in on a regular basis which the exception of large scale which thankfully is a rarity.

Now, is this all a bad thing? i dont know. I would just suggest that the people who are playing the game at the moment are mostly satisfied with how the game plays exemplified by them playing. With the exception of a few sperglords on these forums who hardly ever pvp anyway. In order to satisfy these sperglords you are inflicting a substantial change in gameplay on many people who actually do pvp.

Seems a bit risky to me.

You might say this will result in much more things dying. I would pose that it will result in more blobbing up, perhaps more logi and people being far more selective in the fights they take, and for good reason.

You clearly dont know what 'ultimatum' means.

Also, my point throughout this thread is that this will effect all other areas of pvp. You prove my point yet again by citing examples of how links are broken in 1v1 to justify changing the experience and capabilities of fleet players on ever scale everywhere else in EVE.

Now, one more time in case you missed it again. Im not suggesting that this is objectively bad for the game. Im saying that it is a risk to nerf fleets and in particular smaller fleets vs larger fleets since that is the content that the silent majority enjoys.

Oh he's not the only one, others are just to busy doing actual pvp or other stuff to be forum warrioring as efficiently as Crosi does.

Lotta debate in this thread.

Here is my opinion regarding ECM and OGB:

If the only solution is to "bring your own", then there's probably a balance problem.

It's not a balance problem. Balance is between 2 people. 1 versus 1. OGBs are 2 versus 1. Unfortunately, the kill report doesn't show that accurately.

It is possibly worth stepping back and wondering how CCP see this issue.

I'm gonna speculate, because so far CCP are as silent as the grave on this thread.

It seems to me that CCP has two predominant cultures of strength: on one side you have the financial folks who are (reasonably) concerned for the bottom line, and who see any short term threat to subscriber income as death on a stick. These folks know that there are a lot of lone wolf players who have alts and who reasonably want value for money for their double subscription fees.

One the other side, you have the "visionaries" who think they are very big deals because they know moderately influential people in very large player corps. These people like to make economic arguments, but it always boils down to the same thing: we need to protect and pander to the old time big deals in the mega corps, because they ARE Eve. They built it, they pay huge subscriptions for large numbers of folks, etc etc.

Now, there are also the third group, who are the artists and engineers who just get on do their freaking jobs and work for a living, but nobody listens to them so we can also ignore them for the moment.

So, the big problem here is that both the dominant cultures in the CCP world pander to established income streams. Neither side is focused on new player retention, or building new market shares in new demographics. One side want to chase the lone wolf side of the game, the other want to chase the mega corp demographic.

For all we know, the world of interweb space ship players is basically divided into these two camps. CCP have the data, not me. So maybe it is possible that 99% of Eve players are lone wolf types who prefer gimps to friends, or they are office workers who play Eve because their meglomaniac boss uses company funds to subcribe their whole office into a mega corp in a mega alliance with other space lord bosses.

Let's not be naive. A lot of large corps are office based. A lot of revenue to CCP surely comes from office bosses who write subscriptions off as a cost of running the office. There is nothing wrong with that, except that it means that a lot of players in these corps are probably more likely to act like goons than RPG enthusiasts. Hello Nullsec!

If it is true that CCP is focused on the lone wolf (lone wolf sounds a lot better than "gimp pimp") and the office drone demographic, this would explain a lot about the game.

It would explain off grid boosters. It would explain hilariously OP ships. It would explain the neglect of small gang PVP in favour of citadels and Titans that NOBODY except the office bosses ever fly.

And that is a strategic decision that CCP is best placed to make. They know who plays the game, they know where the money comes from.

However, if it is true that CCP aspires to be greater than it already is, if it is true that CCP wants to retain the new players who are not gimp pimps or office drones, then CCP needs to stop focusing on mechanics that destroy small gang player experience, and they need to start building a culture within their own oprganization that speaks for the demographic they wish to engage in the market place.

Since we are building a lexicon here, let's call them "normal, eager roleplayers with friends", or NERFS.

We have the gimp pimps. We have the office lords and their drones.

What about the NERFS?

Who is going to speak for the NERFS?

Because we are the future.

I hope. I mean, jesus christ. Gimp pimps and office drones?

I need to lie down again.

If boosting is as passive as you say, all you have to do is 60 seconds of probing, and get a decent kill. Or 15 seconds of warping to a gate with a tornado.

Ironically, if boosts are not afk they can be easier to deal with. SImply ejecting a set of 8 combats can be enough to make boosters think twice about what they are doing.

Anyway, im not sure where in the rules that it states that rewards should be balanced by stats AND effort. That throws a spanner in so many aspects of the game.

Your argument suggests that you are simply defeated before you even start. Everythng is too unfair, or too much effort lol.

You know why I PvP in lowsec instead of null?

I get to press F1 in both, but in low I get to press other buttons too.