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[December] Command Destroyers

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#601 - 2015-12-02 12:30:01 UTC
Rowells wrote:
James Shardanii wrote:
I see an easy counter to any command dessies trying to jump out parts of your fleet:

Space out your fleet or have a few anti-dessy groups made up of two cruisers or a frig and a cruiser. These groups should worry about nothing but enemy command dessies. Whenever one starts to make a move, the nearest group MWDs to its most likely target, tackles and destroys the dessy. If the firepower of the group is insufficient to destroy it in a timely manner, have the group web and target paint the dessy and reassign a BC/BS's guns for a few seconds.

If any of those ships for a scram, they should be able to easily stop it where it stands.


Hell all you really need is a few newbros in scram frigs to keep his mjfg off and if you lack numbers a single hic can stop 3-5 on its own from nearly 40km

But any half decent pilot will be able to keep out of the range of a hostile mjfg

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Maccian
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#602 - 2015-12-03 10:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Maccian
I scrolled through half a dozen threads, question may have been asked already but I couldn't find an answer;

Will the MJD AOE also affect ships that have an active/open cyno field? Or will ships with cynos lit be invulnerable to it?

Edit. Follow up question;

If the MJD AOE does affect a ship that has an active/open cyno, will the ship and only the ship be affected, I.E does the ship get jumped 100km and the cyno is left behind? Like when you bump a ship that has an active cyno the cyno stays in place and the ship moves?.

Looking forward to panicking at the site of these on grid, and also looking forward to causing trouble to opponents with them!

Mac
Crystal Thunder
Knights of the Protectorate
#603 - 2015-12-03 12:49:06 UTC
Airi Cho wrote:
TBH ... it could even be a viable module during the tournament... if the MJD usage in the amarr championship is any indication.
and it would give frigs and dessies even more of an important task.


No... you'd just MJFD half the enemy fleet out of the arena for insta-kills. Would not be valid for tournaments.
Crystal Thunder
Knights of the Protectorate
#604 - 2015-12-03 14:17:44 UTC
James Shardanii wrote:
I see an easy counter to any command dessies trying to jump out parts of your fleet:

Space out your fleet or have a few anti-dessy groups made up of two cruisers or a frig and a cruiser. These groups should worry about nothing but enemy command dessies. Whenever one starts to make a move, the nearest group MWDs to its most likely target, tackles and destroys the dessy. If the firepower of the group is insufficient to destroy it in a timely manner, have the group web and target paint the dessy and reassign a BC/BS's guns for a few seconds.


You literally just spelled out the problem. There's almost no other ship in EVE whose singular presence demands potentially changing the entire focus or comp of your (based on your post) frig-through-BS-sized fleet.

A single HIC warping on top of your fleet can be disastrous, but it's not something you bring along an entire dedicated set of anti-hic ship groups for. Why? Because a 400m+ ISK sacrifice isn't worth it to lock down a fleet below a certain size and value, AND because a HIC in a fleet fight is usually a sacrifice play.
This is a much smaller investment being a destroyer, but it's offering the same potential disruption.

tl;dr
Risk is much lower -> Reward is the same -> Thus, unbalanced.
Yadaryon Vondawn
Vicanthya
#605 - 2015-12-03 15:46:37 UTC
Why does the micro jump drive not affect fighters and fighter bombers?
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#606 - 2015-12-04 00:30:15 UTC
so why does the amarr destroyer have the lowest powergrid out of them all?

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Marisol Aldurad
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#607 - 2015-12-04 17:24:58 UTC


Do semi-capital ships get moved? (Freighter, Orca, etc)

Was asked alongg w/a billion similar requests. Capitals do NOT get jumped per the updated OP. Period.

If a Ship is listed under the Capital Skills book -- look in required for, then this Module should/WILL not work.
MindSweeper
Best Friends Forever
Northern Coalition.
#608 - 2015-12-04 18:35:47 UTC
RIP any non mobile doctrine. This is a troll ship plain and simple. Probably one of the worst ideas CCP has had. What did our CSM duders think about these?
RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
#609 - 2015-12-04 18:44:26 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rowells wrote:
James Shardanii wrote:
I see an easy counter to any command dessies trying to jump out parts of your fleet:

Space out your fleet or have a few anti-dessy groups made up of two cruisers or a frig and a cruiser. These groups should worry about nothing but enemy command dessies. Whenever one starts to make a move, the nearest group MWDs to its most likely target, tackles and destroys the dessy. If the firepower of the group is insufficient to destroy it in a timely manner, have the group web and target paint the dessy and reassign a BC/BS's guns for a few seconds.

If any of those ships for a scram, they should be able to easily stop it where it stands.


Hell all you really need is a few newbros in scram frigs to keep his mjfg off and if you lack numbers a single hic can stop 3-5 on its own from nearly 40km

But any half decent pilot will be able to keep out of the range of a hostile mjfg



Oh yes, wormholespace has plenty of newbros in frigs on standby while having a t3-brawl ... Roll
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#610 - 2015-12-04 23:26:48 UTC
RcTamiya wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rowells wrote:
James Shardanii wrote:
I see an easy counter to any command dessies trying to jump out parts of your fleet:

Space out your fleet or have a few anti-dessy groups made up of two cruisers or a frig and a cruiser. These groups should worry about nothing but enemy command dessies. Whenever one starts to make a move, the nearest group MWDs to its most likely target, tackles and destroys the dessy. If the firepower of the group is insufficient to destroy it in a timely manner, have the group web and target paint the dessy and reassign a BC/BS's guns for a few seconds.

If any of those ships for a scram, they should be able to easily stop it where it stands.


Hell all you really need is a few newbros in scram frigs to keep his mjfg off and if you lack numbers a single hic can stop 3-5 on its own from nearly 40km

But any half decent pilot will be able to keep out of the range of a hostile mjfg



Oh yes, wormholespace has plenty of newbros in frigs on standby while having a t3-brawl ... Roll

Even better actually. Faster lock time and decent tracking means ripping through it quickly is definitely an option. And having logistics sit on the hole as a safeguard could be an issue (especially if you send one on both sides).

Which reminds me, does the MJDG have the same rules surrounding cloak activation as the MJD?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#611 - 2015-12-04 23:28:57 UTC
Also, I keep hearing about 60k ehp fits for these, is that true? Someone can share the fit if it is please.
Wanda Fayne
#612 - 2015-12-05 01:06:57 UTC
No way am I flying a ship called Dork...
er, Stork...
Spork?

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#613 - 2015-12-05 09:43:38 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Also, I keep hearing about 60k ehp fits for these, is that true? Someone can share the fit if it is please.


More like 18K with boss resists for the Pontifex.

I mean, Pontifex, Deacon and hecate walked into a brawl...

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Irya Boone
The Scope
#614 - 2015-12-05 10:05:01 UTC
will this ships be allowed in small FW plexes?

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#615 - 2015-12-05 11:26:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Trinkets friend wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Also, I keep hearing about 60k ehp fits for these, is that true? Someone can share the fit if it is please.


More like 18K with boss resists for the Pontifex.

I mean, Pontifex, Deacon and hecate walked into a brawl...



Can get 34.8k with a stork on a first pass, before links and implants. Siege links take it to 49k. Faction extenders and a 3% implant and you're looking at 53.3k

Not quite as impressive on the armor ones, 24k on a ponti at a first quick stab but that stork, 34-49k on a 90 or less sig? Ouch (MJGF bloom tbc)
Mjolnir Spartanus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#616 - 2015-12-06 02:22:27 UTC
Why are we getting a new "Command Destroyers" skill when there is already a Command Ships skill in the game? Can't you just make the new destroyers use that skill since technically Destroyers = Ships?
Dani Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#617 - 2015-12-06 06:16:36 UTC
Mjolnir Spartanus wrote:
Why are we getting a new "Command Destroyers" skill when there is already a Command Ships skill in the game? Can't you just make the new destroyers use that skill since technically Destroyers = Ships?


Assault Frigates-->Heavy Assault Cruisers
Electronic Attack Frigates/COVOPS-->Recons
(new) T2 Logistic Frigates-->Logistic Cruisers
Interdictors-->Heavy Interdictor Cruisers

That's why.
Mjolnir Spartanus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#618 - 2015-12-06 06:22:15 UTC
Dani Maulerant wrote:
Mjolnir Spartanus wrote:
Why are we getting a new "Command Destroyers" skill when there is already a Command Ships skill in the game? Can't you just make the new destroyers use that skill since technically Destroyers = Ships?


Assault Frigates-->Heavy Assault Cruisers
Electronic Attack Frigates/COVOPS-->Recons
(new) T2 Logistic Frigates-->Logistic Cruisers
Interdictors-->Heavy Interdictor Cruisers

That's why.


Then they should probably rename the Command Ships skill to something like Command Battlecruisers to keep with the naming convention.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#619 - 2015-12-07 13:05:59 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

With these ships I'm especially interested in any opinions or insights on the powergrid and CPU numbers, as the ships will probably get used a few different ways and I'm not positive we've accounted for all of them.

If you have any questions or need clarifications please ask, and don't be surprised if there's a typo here and there that needs fixing :)

Thanks !


Why don't you give a PG and a CPU reduction role bonus?

Without a CPU reduction it is too hard to get a good, fully fit ship that utilises links, so you may as well stick to using a command ship and off-grid links (for as long as that's around).

If your mind, is it better that a ship can only fill one of the two roles it has been designed for?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
LordInvisible
Nova Ardour
#620 - 2015-12-07 13:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: LordInvisible
Hmm, I dont like this "feature" either:

- without a dedicated tackler, thats there only focused on catching !possible! Command destroyer, nobody is gonna lock it in 4 seconds (1second is wasted on server tick btw..)

- everything not already running MWD (apart from some frigs) cannot get out of 6km radius in 5 seconds. To accelerate to 1km/s you need 3-4 seconds on a speed fitted cruiser. Then you have to travel for another 3.5km in one second.

- ship is boring outside of this new module usage, total garbage. Doesnt add anything that other ships wouldnt do better and have some other role in fleet at the same time. Stupid bonuses add to this even more: who is gonna launch drones if his only point is to warp 100km away?

- Nerf to drone ships maybe? All the rattlers gonna loose shitton of drones suddenly (mainly sentry drones). Hello smartbombing, insta warping BSs..

- If anything, this kind of feature should be tied up to a battlecruiser or BS.

But CCP already did it, no point in pointing out stupid things they do while there is plenty of others that needs fixing. Its their game afterall.

One question tho: if you fit three WCS, does that negate scram?