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Need some help figuring out where to go from here.
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TomParad0x
RogueNET
#1 - 2015-12-03 16:56:44 UTC  |  Edited by: TomParad0x
So, I've done a little bit of trading, nothing seriously profitable by any means. I'm wanting to try take it to the next level. I'm wanting to understand how people turn what I'm doing into 1+B a day, while somehow only logging in for an hour to update orders. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not wanting a free ride, but there's so much conflicting information out there as to how to go about doing this. Or, I should say, there's so many different ways to do this, apparently. I see some people say high margin / low volume isn't good, while at the same time some people say low margin / high volume items aren't good, or high margin / high volume isn't good because it has too much competition, etc... Some people say station trading as a whole sucks, and to just do trade routes. Or that trade routes suck... I think you get the idea. I'm sure all of these have valid points, and valid methods.

So, here's what I'm doing now. At first I did some trading in Amarr, didn't make much, didn't have many orders at all (maybe 10 - 15.) Made some isk, mostly on one item.

So, I figured that wasn't bad, but then I decided to go to Jita and see how I did if I spent a day just camping the orders (I was hoping the amount of volume moved would outweigh the need to constantly change the price to stay on top), but I seriously underestimated the amount of micromanagement needed to actually keep things moving. I imagine the profits can be really good when you find the right items, and constantly sit and camp it. But, I don't really have time for this kind of commitment. Ended up making about 200m in a day, which from what I've read isn't all that good. I had maybe 30 or 40 items. Some (most) hardly moved, some moved a lot (I couldn't believe how much adaptive invuln 2s moved)

Next, I decided to try Dodixie. This time around I talked to a guy who told me to try high margin / low volume items. So, I tried that (Faction/deadspace modules, some ships, towers, various things like that) I have about 34 buy, and 7 sell orders. But honestly, the volume on most of these items seems to be incredibly bad. I've made about 260m this week in profit, according to eve-mogul, started Sunday. Now, I know I need more orders, probably need to take some time and evaluate the items I have up to see if it's worth keeping them, etc. Currently it's something like 3.8B in sells, 6.4B in buys.

In total, according to eve mogul, I've made about 600m in profit this month.

The thing is, I'm not really sure where to go from here. Is this really just a cycle of getting rid of the orders which aren't moving, increasing my orders get more orders, repeat?

Anyway, appreciate any help. Thanks!
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2015-12-03 18:51:15 UTC
It looks like you haven't quite found your niche yet - still, keep plugging away, and keep spreadsheeting and keeping your eyes open. It'll come!

I attempted trading a few times, before being disheartened and giving up each time. I then left for a three year hiatus, and, when I returned, I could approach things with a fresh eye - and, this time, I tried again with a new vigour. I found my niche, and began plugging away. Of course, I don't want to wreck my little oasis, but I essentially came to a happy medium between low volume/high margin items and high volume/low margin items - I have the skills for 45 open orders on Bumble and, using these, I have turnover of about 1bn a day (sometimes more, sometimes less), and make about 200m profit/day for about five minutes work daily. Not much in the grand scheme of things, of course, but it's enough for me and I, too, hate the micromanagement of Jita 0.01ing - not for the likes of us, perhaps!

One thing that really motivated me was getting public funding - not only was it extremely helpful getting an infusion of cash to expand my sales lines, keeping to an interest repayment schedule was an extra frissant in motivating me to do well. That could be something you look at too.

All the best - and if I can help in any small way, feel free to EVEMail me :)

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
TomParad0x
RogueNET
#3 - 2015-12-03 19:42:15 UTC  |  Edited by: TomParad0x
Bumblefck wrote:
It looks like you haven't quite found your niche yet - still, keep plugging away, and keep spreadsheeting and keeping your eyes open. It'll come!

I attempted trading a few times, before being disheartened and giving up each time. I then left for a three year hiatus, and, when I returned, I could approach things with a fresh eye - and, this time, I tried again with a new vigour. I found my niche, and began plugging away. Of course, I don't want to wreck my little oasis, but I essentially came to a happy medium between low volume/high margin items and high volume/low margin items - I have the skills for 45 open orders on Bumble and, using these, I have turnover of about 1bn a day (sometimes more, sometimes less), and make about 200m profit/day for about five minutes work daily. Not much in the grand scheme of things, of course, but it's enough for me and I, too, hate the micromanagement of Jita 0.01ing - not for the likes of us, perhaps!

One thing that really motivated me was getting public funding - not only was it extremely helpful getting an infusion of cash to expand my sales lines, keeping to an interest repayment schedule was an extra frissant in motivating me to do well. That could be something you look at too.

All the best - and if I can help in any small way, feel free to EVEMail me :)



Hey, thanks for the reply :)

The public funding is an interesting idea, for the motivation, though I have a decent amount of starting capital to put to it.

I did have a question, though. I was going to EVE mail it, but I figured I might get other insights posting it:

How did you find a niche? That is to say, what process do you use to find it? Just "brute force" (so to speak) trying different items, margins and volumes?



On the note of Jita, I actually don't mind the idea of micromanaging it for a day, but I don't see it as a long term - and that's my main issue. When I do something like this, I'm in it for the long haul. I could see that as being a nice weekend of heavy isk making (potential), but that's about it.

Anyways, thanks again for the response!
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#4 - 2015-12-03 21:21:58 UTC
No problem - happy (and surprised!) to have helped! :)


Basically, yes, it was brute force - I sat down with a pad, pencil, an Excel spreadsheet open, and flew around several regions (with Jita as a reference point), looking at high buy prices in hubs and comparing them with the low sell order prices in several smaller hubs - with a particular eye on volume (easily more influential a factor in deciding what to invest in than margin, at least in my case).

After that, it was simply a case of running a limited series of tests, putting up small quantities of the items that I'd found, and watching how they sold - some I kept, some I discarded, and other new insights presented themselves to me. In fact, this whole experience was very useful because, of my original basket of items, I'd say I'm only cycling about half of them at this moment - the rest are new directions which presented themselves to me out of blue.

A singularly illuminating and exciting experience! :)

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Optical Illusion
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-12-04 00:38:50 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=441780&find=unread

This thread, I started with my trade alt, and I had alot of useful replys.

Not sure why it is locked now, but even so, some good stuff in there..

Hope it can be of some use!

/Opti
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#6 - 2015-12-04 02:11:10 UTC
TomParad0x wrote:

At first I did some trading in Amarr, didn't make much, didn't have many orders at all (maybe 10 - 15.) Made some isk, mostly on one item.


Maybe that was your niche
TomParad0x
RogueNET
#7 - 2015-12-04 13:31:29 UTC
Hey, first off, thanks for all the replies!

I hadn't had a chance to really act on any of the advice yet, but I should this weekend.

Bumblefck wrote:
No problem - happy (and surprised!) to have helped! :)


Basically, yes, it was brute force - I sat down with a pad, pencil, an Excel spreadsheet open, and flew around several regions (with Jita as a reference point), looking at high buy prices in hubs and comparing them with the low sell order prices in several smaller hubs - with a particular eye on volume (easily more influential a factor in deciding what to invest in than margin, at least in my case).

After that, it was simply a case of running a limited series of tests, putting up small quantities of the items that I'd found, and watching how they sold - some I kept, some I discarded, and other new insights presented themselves to me. In fact, this whole experience was very useful because, of my original basket of items, I'd say I'm only cycling about half of them at this moment - the rest are new directions which presented themselves to me out of blue.

A singularly illuminating and exciting experience! :)



That's good to know that I'm going the right route with it (Trying different items and strategies, spots, research, etc.)

How long would you recommend test running items for?


Optical Illusion wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=441780&find=unread

This thread, I started with my trade alt, and I had alot of useful replys.

Not sure why it is locked now, but even so, some good stuff in there..

Hope it can be of some use!

/Opti


Hey, thanks for the link! I'll definitely give it a read.

Paul Pohl wrote:
TomParad0x wrote:

At first I did some trading in Amarr, didn't make much, didn't have many orders at all (maybe 10 - 15.) Made some isk, mostly on one item.


Maybe that was your niche


Could be, but even though it was moving, it didn't move enough to make billions. It actually seemed to be a fairly popular item anywhere, so that's a plus.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#8 - 2015-12-04 14:38:35 UTC
TomParad0x wrote:

That's good to know that I'm going the right route with it (Trying different items and strategies, spots, research, etc.)

How long would you recommend test running items for?





I tried for a week, if I remember correctly - that seemed to give me a long enough window to see if there was a future in what I was doing. You might want to extend that, if you're a bit more cautious than I, but I think that should be long enough :)


It's really heartening to read your positivity - well done!

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log