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Medium-Difficulty Burner Missions
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#1 - 2015-11-25 22:52:30 UTC
So, we now have Burner-missions to give a little bit of challenge to the age-old standard PVE of EVE Online.

In my experience, while the idea of Burner-missions is good, the execution leaves a lot to be desired. Right now we're seemingly entering this weird death spiral where elite players find a way to "crack" the Burner-AI like a puzzle and in return CCP makes Burner-missions harder or adds even harder missions.

This leaves normal player a bit in the dust, though. I really want to like Burner-missions, but I'm not even able to run them using guides and I'm sure I'm not the only player basically too bad to run this content. Now I probably could make a bunch of alts or force my friends to play EVE with me, but that's like using cheat codes in my opinion. (Also I wouldn't have any friends left after a month or two, I fear. P)

So after my latest failure, I thought about this and had an idea: Medium- and Beginner's Burner missions.

Medium-Burner missions would be basically easier versions of the Burner-missions we have now: Let's say half the burn, half the reward. This way players not totally insane could have some fun with Burners, too.

The Beginner's Burner missions would be basically level 3 versions of Burner-missions: Instead of giving lots of challenge, the goal of those lower-class Burners would be to give newer players a change to try them out before running face first into the real ones. In terms of difficulty and rewards, lv. 3 Burners should be somewhere on the hard side of level 3 missions, basically a transition between 3 and 4.

In terms of difficulty, those new missions should go like this:

- Beginner Burners (Level 3, hard but not too hard, should be doable for good newbies and really bad veterans)
- Medium Burners (Level 4, about half the challenge and half the reward of "real" Burners, to let bad players have a chance)
- Normal Burners (Level 4, to give veterans some nice new toys, basically as it is now)

Thoughts?
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-11-25 23:01:17 UTC
I too strive for mediocrity. Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#3 - 2015-11-25 23:05:17 UTC
CCP apparently intend to overhaul at least some of PvE, hopefully including missions and i think i heard/read more/most NPC's will be getting burner AI.

Its gonna take a while though.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#4 - 2015-11-25 23:19:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I too strive for mediocrity. Roll


Luckily I don't, so I made this thread for you to read. P

Joking aside, a developer like CCP pretty much wants content to be run, so making some kind of street to lead new players to it seems like a good idea. But hey, maybe CCP secretly wants to make missions so hard they're finally achieve sentience and punch players through their monitor. I can't imagine that would be healthy for the game, though.
oohthey ioh
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-12-02 17:46:53 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I too strive for mediocrity. Roll


Luckily I don't, so I made this thread for you to read. P

Joking aside, a developer like CCP pretty much wants content to be run, so making some kind of street to lead new players to it seems like a good idea. But hey, maybe CCP secretly wants to make missions so hard they're finally achieve sentience and punch players through their monitor. I can't imagine that would be healthy for the game, though.


considering they was made to give some experienced player more of an challenge to run, i have to say no, player can do other easyer missions, if anything there should be harder ones.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-12-02 17:54:44 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I too strive for mediocrity. Roll


I'm not sure "use prescribed fit and collect isk or do not and die" was a brilliant idea on their part either, to be fair.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-12-02 19:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I too strive for mediocrity. Roll

We noticed.

Honestly I'm not sure how you can be too bad to beat the current burners, unless you mean lacking in-game skills? They're still usetherightfitandwin like all other missions.

Travelling at the speed of love.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#8 - 2015-12-03 04:24:50 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I too strive for mediocrity. Roll

We noticed.

Honestly I'm not sure how you can be too bad to beat the current burners, unless you mean lacking in-game skills? They're still usetherightfitandwin like all other missions.


With the "tiny" detail that those mission take you 4837267456261 regions away from your agent and you will need to sacrifice ships to find a way to beat them.

This was almost the right approach to make isk.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-12-03 17:13:06 UTC
So basically like, level 2 or 3 burners not just level 4 burners? I like it, helps ease newer players or more mission based players into pvp a little better then the current burners which can wreck your **** especially if you've never fought them before. At least give players a chance to see how these missions work before blowing them away.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-12-03 17:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I say ditch the current level of burner difficulty entirely, put them down at realistic player attributes for the same ship and just give them extra hit points to make the fight last longer. Stick em further away from the beacon if blitzing them is actually an ISK faucet concern. It's always going to be easy for those who have the right ship and know how to do it, but there can be fun had in not looking up a guide and instead testing your own skills to figure it out on your own. The current burners remove that fun because you have to check a guide and then sink a lot of ISK in to get a fit that works, and by the time you've run enough to get your money back you're sick of them.

All burners should have player-level attributes (except maybe increased hit points).

Level 4 burners should be in pirate ships with deadspace fits. The easiest way to beat them would be in an assault ship. taking advantage of a higher resistance to their damage type. It shouldn't be a mandatory choice, though. If you have the same ship/fit as the burner and max relevant skills, but you have fleet boosts, you should win.

Level 3 burners should be in assault ships with faction fits. They would be easy to beat if you choose an assault ship with the right resistance, but you can do them alright in a tech 1 ship just having a good solid fit and the right damage type to use against them.

Level 2 burners should be in t1 ships with t2 fits, and reduced skill bonuses.

Level 1 burners should have attributes similar to a newer player in a t1 frigate with a meta fit. May sound weak, but it's going to hit hard to a new player who isn't used to being shot at by anyone with player attributes. They'll have terrible fitting skills and will likely be astonished what the weak burner can do to them. It's a learning experience.


edit: for those who like a bit of a challenge, there could be level 5 burners with attributes like the level 4, but more hit points and also strong fleet boosts, implants, and booster effects. That's still weaker than current burners.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#11 - 2015-12-03 22:10:12 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Level 4 burners should be in pirate ships with deadspace fits. The easiest way to beat them would be in an assault ship. taking advantage of a higher resistance to their damage type. It shouldn't be a mandatory choice, though. If you have the same ship/fit as the burner and max relevant skills, but you have fleet boosts, you should win.

Level 3 burners should be in assault ships with faction fits. They would be easy to beat if you choose an assault ship with the right resistance, but you can do them alright in a tech 1 ship just having a good solid fit and the right damage type to use against them.

Level 2 burners should be in t1 ships with t2 fits, and reduced skill bonuses.

Level 1 burners should have attributes similar to a newer player in a t1 frigate with a meta fit. May sound weak, but it's going to hit hard to a new player who isn't used to being shot at by anyone with player attributes. They'll have terrible fitting skills and will likely be astonished what the weak burner can do to them. It's a learning experience.


edit: for those who like a bit of a challenge, there could be level 5 burners with attributes like the level 4, but more hit points and also strong fleet boosts, implants, and booster effects. That's still weaker than current burners.


I think the initial burner intention was supposed to be player with max skills and officer-fit......

I'm guessing CCP's buffed them significantly

What we need are missions that change from run to run. The first time, you might have a range fit succubus that deals fairly pathetic damage, but can kite you all day long, the next time you get a brawler AND YOU DON'T KNOW IN ADVANCE - knowing what you're up against in advance is what leads to 'use this ship' mentality - if you don't know what you're up against - hehe Twisted

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-12-04 02:11:26 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
What we need are missions that change from run to run. The first time, you might have a range fit succubus that deals fairly pathetic damage, but can kite you all day long, the next time you get a brawler AND YOU DON'T KNOW IN ADVANCE - knowing what you're up against in advance is what leads to 'use this ship' mentality - if you don't know what you're up against - hehe Twisted

Yes, they should have certain traits the same and others different. There should be a set of fits for each specific burner, and it picks one randomly when you accept the mission.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."