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[Proposal] Inject + Add Skills when you qualify for preq's in 24 hours.
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Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#21 - 2011-09-12 12:26:57 UTC
Actually, prereq checks ARE done in the queue when you change it. you can't move say Cruider 5 up and above Cruiser 4 for instance. There's not much CPU requirements to test this really. So being able to inject any skill you want, but not train them beyond level 0 unless you have the prereqs would be a nice idea. I really dislike having to stuff a long skill just because I can't inject the next book. Especially at the lower end of a line of skills this is annoying.
( I just started training up my alt for a carrier, so it's frigate 4, cruiser 4, Battleship 5... can't continuously train these in succession, you have to inject the next skill after you have the prereq and switch back from a different skill. )

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
VC General
No Baals Inc
#22 - 2011-09-12 15:36:27 UTC
I agree with Zagam. This falls into the "that would be nice" category for the 2-3 times a year that it becomes an issue, if it ever is at all. If it takes anyone at CCP more than 5 minutes to code and implement this, they're wasting time that could be used to fix truly game breaking bugs.
Havak Kouvo
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-09-12 21:35:23 UTC
If all but one of the requirements for a skill are meant, you should be able to inject.

So if you are planning to train Caldari Battleship, if you have Caldari Cruiser III, you should be able to inject it. Then add it to the end of your queue, but only if Caldari Cruiser IV is before it. If you remove Caldari Cruiser IV from the queue, you automatically remove Caldari Battleship I from the queue as well. Its not that hard compared to ANY thing else they are doing, its just testing that you have the conditions in the code right.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#24 - 2011-09-14 23:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
While I definitely see the benefit of injecting the skill before you can train it, I think there is another aspect to this.

There is a value added to having a skillbook when you need to train it. Associated with this, is the danger in transporting a skillbook. If you can instantly inject it, you can bypass all of this danger and negate much of the added value. Truth be told, I think that the few hours you might be saving by injecting the skillbook are negligible to the danger and opportunity costs of transporting a skillbook until you can use it.

The only way I would support this, is if a mechanic existed such that any player that gets podded with an untrained injected skill permanently loses that skill.
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2011-09-15 11:29:44 UTC
Xearal wrote:
Actually, prereq checks ARE done in the queue when you change it. you can't move say Cruider 5 up and above Cruiser 4 for instance.

yeah, the only check done on the client because it requires no database lookup.


Quote:
There's not much CPU requirements to test this really.


Its db lookup that is the bottleneck, not cpu. You rearrange skill queues a lot more than you try to inject skills. That translates to a lot more db lookups. If you don't design software systems, you wouldn't understand.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#26 - 2011-09-15 13:20:34 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Hard to counteract my proposed penalty of "skill book vaproizes"


I don't even particularly like that penalty. Can anyone give a good reason for us to NOT be able to inject skills before we have the prerequisites?


Playing devil's advocate, yes.

The system actually works well enough as it is. However, to do as you're requesting, there'd have to be some serious coding added to check to see if skills you're attempting to train can actually be trained. As it stands right now, that logic likely doesn't exist. In addition, the logic currently in place to see if you can inject a skill or not would need to be changed as well. So now you have two different areas of code being modified. Then add testing. Then add the possibility of bugs or undiscovered bugs or exploits getting through.

To be honest, it sounds nice on paper but it would be a lot more work than it's worth imo.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
ehon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-09-29 19:12:22 UTC
MNagy wrote:
I would argue that you shoudl be able to put any skill into your toon.

You just cant skill it past 0 unless you have skill to.

It sux carrying holding skill books for weeks waiting / waiting / waiting to use them.

Then you finally fly back to where your skill books are - inject them and off you go again.
-That is the pain.

If you already had it in your skills but at level 0 - problem solved.


i do like the idea of just being to buy books for future plans plugging them in and being done with it so i can focus on the fun parts. plus i would argue that having to carry them around while waiting is not a very safe venture ether
ehon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2011-09-29 19:16:13 UTC
Sor'Ral wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Hard to counteract my proposed penalty of "skill book vaproizes"


I don't even particularly like that penalty. Can anyone give a good reason for us to NOT be able to inject skills before we have the prerequisites?



Not sure which way is better, but one possible "Con" to allowing infinite injection of skills where pre-req's have not yet been trained:

Would this damage the current "skill book transport / selling to nullsec" trade mechanic? (not sure how extensively this mechanic is used, but some people may thrive on it).

Sure would make things easier tho ... before sending your characters to deep null or WH space, just buy and inject all the skills you might need .... certainly adds to the risk and excitement factor tho, when you have to transport those expensive cap ship skills through dangerous territory!

+1 for support of being able to add skills to the 24 hr queue, if the prereq's are already in the queue. The current limitation is very frustrating (tho not game breaking) ... just another of the 1,000 papercuts to die from.


lol, book trade you know theirs always going to be the one more that you dont have that you want so bad that youll pay to have it shipped in.
ehon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2011-09-29 19:19:05 UTC
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Here is a practical reason why this will not work. 
Allowing injecting of skills at 0 level without a prerequisite check will cause undue burden on the servers. 
Why? Because this will mean prerequisite checks will need to be done every time you rearrange your training queue.  Currently these are done only on skill injection. Not only this, but a prereq check on a proposed training queue is more complicated due to dependancy checks on whether a given prereq is finished before a 0 skill is started. This means a lot more prereq checks done on the server, and each one is more complicated. 

Checks done on injection means that skill queue submission ( pause, apply ) is a simple update operation on the server, as you can only manipulate skills you can train in the queue editor. 

So as much as this would be a "nice to have" feature, it's unlikely to be done just to appease a few folks. 


i dont fully agree cause any skill with points would not be checked. also if have to be its as easy as having a book hanger in your head for those on stand be and being called up when rdy.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#30 - 2011-09-29 19:19:05 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
While I definitely see the benefit of injecting the skill before you can train it, I think there is another aspect to this.

There is a value added to having a skillbook when you need to train it. Associated with this, is the danger in transporting a skillbook. If you can instantly inject it, you can bypass all of this danger and negate much of the added value. Truth be told, I think that the few hours you might be saving by injecting the skillbook are negligible to the danger and opportunity costs of transporting a skillbook until you can use it.

The only way I would support this, is if a mechanic existed such that any player that gets podded with an untrained injected skill permanently loses that skill.


That seems like a fair compromise. OP supported on this basis.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
ehon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2011-09-29 19:21:22 UTC
VC General wrote:
I agree with Zagam. This falls into the "that would be nice" category for the 2-3 times a year that it becomes an issue, if it ever is at all. If it takes anyone at CCP more than 5 minutes to code and implement this, they're wasting time that could be used to fix truly game breaking bugs.


i don't agree as they have a very large staff. Plus i am sure that way more time is wasted and lost threw the days that a say any thing less then 30minutes for the it'll be nice option would make large differences as a hole.
ehon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-09-29 19:23:35 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
While I definitely see the benefit of injecting the skill before you can train it, I think there is another aspect to this.

There is a value added to having a skillbook when you need to train it. Associated with this, is the danger in transporting a skillbook. If you can instantly inject it, you can bypass all of this danger and negate much of the added value. Truth be told, I think that the few hours you might be saving by injecting the skillbook are negligible to the danger and opportunity costs of transporting a skillbook until you can use it.

The only way I would support this, is if a mechanic existed such that any player that gets podded with an untrained injected skill permanently loses that skill.



the only advantage i see here is your gate camping business. if your so worried about money find a new past time.
ehon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2011-09-29 19:25:07 UTC
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Xearal wrote:
Actually, prereq checks ARE done in the queue when you change it. you can't move say Cruider 5 up and above Cruiser 4 for instance.

yeah, the only check done on the client because it requires no database lookup.


Quote:
There's not much CPU requirements to test this really.


Its db lookup that is the bottleneck, not cpu. You rearrange skill queues a lot more than you try to inject skills. That translates to a lot more db lookups. If you don't design software systems, you wouldn't understand.




the data base would only be hit once when i hit the submit button. My client can deny my order long be for it wastes ANY server time.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#34 - 2011-09-30 08:31:45 UTC
Seriously, if you're that impatient, this is not a game for you.

Also, way to want to break something that's already broken. There's enough coding glitches in this game without adding more for people who are just too lazy or impatient to wait and/or have a filler skill in place.

So quit trying to add more trouble to the pot, when there's already enough kicks that are STILL being worked out from the last two expansions.

But to take a line out of your book Drake, "you never were that bright."

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#35 - 2011-09-30 09:29:54 UTC
The proposal makes perfect sense.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-10-02 06:20:29 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
The proposal makes perfect sense.


Not quite - as others have pointed out there are several flaws to it.

Unmet multiple prerequisites, injection before going into dangerous places to avoid expensive losses, so on and so forth.

The added code checks and potential for problems - there are thousands of far more important issues for the "large staff" to work on that far exceed this fairly trivial complaint that the player base has been working with for years.

*IF* they do a revamp of the skills queuing system ; I could see them doing something like this as part of it but without a revamp of that system to address other issues, I see no reason for them to crack the code open just to implement this.

As such - a "3rd tier" priority type gig and not something to put on the front burner.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#37 - 2011-10-02 10:10:16 UTC
Another crappy suggestion from the king of ****.

Try again, and next time try not to turn EVE into the WOW/Hello Kitty game that we all know you secretly want it to be.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Sphit Ker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2011-10-02 13:27:18 UTC
I can see a potential problem with that, if that's a problem at all.

Queuing skill require, first, skill injection. You can inject if you meet prerequisites. You don't meet them until you do (well, duh).

Is this a problem at all?

It knows what you think.
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