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Should I go for cruisers?

Author
Qwelas Tagus
Akimamur Industries
Incorporeal Conglomerate Society
#1 - 2015-12-02 11:04:42 UTC
I am focusing on doing security missions at the moment I do missions lvl1, people also say that missions lvl2 can be hard for a destroyer, should I aim to buy a cruiser our what should I do to for being able to do higher lvl agents missions?

Thanks to everyone that is helping me understanding the game.

Also I dont have English as my main language so sorry my "Broken English".

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2015-12-02 11:50:09 UTC
T3 destroyers can do up to lvl 3's and are both outrageous fun to fly and horrifically op (if you believe what people say about them)

That said cruisers are the workhorses of eve and have the wider variety of roles so you're probably going to get the most mileage out of that hull class.

Also worth mentioning that your new Corp has an effective bullseye painted right between it's eyes by having "mercs" in it's title.

I would inform your CEO that the actual mercs will maul ye once they see it.
Broject
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-12-02 12:01:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Broject
Lvl2s aren't hard to do in a destroyer, even in the early days. What lacks is experience to do them.
When you pick close range weaponry the early missions take longer and are harder,
compared to using long range weaponry and an AB, which is faster and you even learn more.

Cruisers otoh make them comparatively easy and reduce the amount of experience and understanding of how things work.

If you manage to do lvl2s in turret based destroyers (example: 280mm artillery thrasher) you can go through missions faster,
but also learn a lot about kiting, orbitting mechanics, optimal/falloff and it's fun, too.

Easier doesn't mean better. It means easier, which directly translates into less challenge and thus less knowledge and understanding gained. So you can choose being the same as the rest aka what misguided bittervets tell you, or better compared to people of your game age.
Broject
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-12-02 12:07:17 UTC
Ralph liked my post.

SEEENNNNPAAAAIIIIII!!!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2015-12-02 12:13:59 UTC
I also popped the op's forum cherry for I am a generous God.





Actually I just liked the advice, the magic of eve happens about |<----------------this--------------->| far out of the comfort zone and you're pointing him in the right direction for figuring that out.
Broject
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-12-02 12:17:44 UTC
Should sub and dec his corp. No time. *sighs*

Thanks, Ralph. :)
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-12-02 12:18:59 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Also worth mentioning that your new Corp has an effective bullseye painted right between it's eyes by having "mercs" in it's title.

I would inform your CEO that the actual mercs will maul ye once they see it.


It says academy so mercs will love this because they are learning trololol

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2015-12-02 12:22:10 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Also worth mentioning that your new Corp has an effective bullseye painted right between it's eyes by having "mercs" in it's title.

I would inform your CEO that the actual mercs will maul ye once they see it.


It says academy so mercs will love this because they are learning trololol

"No api"... Shocked
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#9 - 2015-12-02 12:23:38 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
I also popped the op's forum cherry for I am a generous God.





Actually I just liked the advice, the magic of eve happens about |<----------------this--------------->| far out of the comfort zone and you're pointing him in the right direction for figuring that out.


Depends on who's comfort zone.


/weird uncle mode
Memphis Baas
#10 - 2015-12-02 13:09:24 UTC
Go for cruisers. As posted above, they are very commonly used ships, because they currently sit in the sweet spot: still relatively cheap ships, good firepower for almost any situation, very versatile because of a good number of high, med, and low fitting slots, and no lengthy skill training requirements.

Basically, your question is pretty much "should I progress my ship lines", and the answer is "yes." Typically people go frigate -> cruiser -> battlecruiser, and then evaluate whether to go battleship or go for the more specialized Tech 2 cruisers (to fulfill specific roles for their corps). CCP has also been introducing Tech 3 ships, but given their cost, you should treat them as "designed for players who know wtf they're doing," and consider them for your lineup once you've gotten a solid grasp of the game mechanics.

Cruisers are going to fly differently than frigates; they're slow enough and big enough that you can't use the same "be nimble and difficult to aim at" defenses that frigates use. Starting with cruisers, you need to fit actual shield (or armor) defenses with resists, because the combat will be more along the lines of "sit there and let the shield or armor absorb the punishment." Cruisers will also be an introduction to utility and electronic warfare modules; things like target painters, webifiers, energy neutralizers, etc. provide a decent / viable way to catch those nimble frigate targets and hold them still so your weapons can kill them.

So, basically, don't forget to train the support skills from Armor, Shield, Electronics, Navigation etc., to allow you to install these things on your cruiser and otherwise defend it properly.
Broject
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-12-02 13:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Broject
And that's why he shouldn't go with cruisers/more 6anky ships with more relative firepower.
He'll just sit there, waiting for ships to approach or approach them himself instead,
because he uses an inferior choice of weaponry that degrades the experience.

You can be willing to learn and engage the experience, or you want it easier.
One can't have both at the same time.

While there's no denying different things can be learned in different ships,
doing lvl2s in cruisers teaches less than using destroyers.

He will not spoil himself with the relatively easier cruisers,
which he will inevitably switch to once reaching lvl3s anyway.

Skipping a shipclass is bad. Most don't go back until much later, if ever.
Solai
Doughfleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#12 - 2015-12-02 13:37:30 UTC
I agree with Memphis Baas broadly, but Broject has a good point.

It's possible to do lvl 2's in a frigate or destroyer, particularly by being difficult to hit. Example -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT8VqVcLDqc

However, that could be pretty demanding on your learning pace, if you're very new. If you have a decent idea on how to fit your ship and how to use it, a destroyer or frigate is viable. But if you're struggling to make sense of all the things flying at you, then that cruiser will give you breathing room.

In the end, do what's more fun. Don't push so much that you get stressed out of the game. But don't do what's easiest either. Always push, but set your own pace.

If you want tips on how to fit & fly a frigate, cruiser, or destroyer for lvl2's, or 3's, ask here.

On a different note, don't worry about training things past rank three, and avoid going for T3 destroyers, or T2 ships. Specialization in this game yields diminishing returns. Eve tends to reward the generalist, so get a few quick ranks in a lot of things before sinking time into one skill. Wait until you feel confident in what you're doing before training higher skills or pursuing a specialized path.
Qwelas Tagus
Akimamur Industries
Incorporeal Conglomerate Society
#13 - 2015-12-02 14:17:15 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Go for cruisers. As posted above, they are very commonly used ships, because they currently sit in the sweet spot: still relatively cheap ships, good firepower for almost any situation, very versatile because of a good number of high, med, and low fitting slots, and no lengthy skill training requirements.

Basically, your question is pretty much "should I progress my ship lines", and the answer is "yes." Typically people go frigate -> cruiser -> battlecruiser, and then evaluate whether to go battleship or go for the more specialized Tech 2 cruisers (to fulfill specific roles for their corps). CCP has also been introducing Tech 3 ships, but given their cost, you should treat them as "designed for players who know wtf they're doing," and consider them for your lineup once you've gotten a solid grasp of the game mechanics.

Cruisers are going to fly differently than frigates; they're slow enough and big enough that you can't use the same "be nimble and difficult to aim at" defenses that frigates use. Starting with cruisers, you need to fit actual shield (or armor) defenses with resists, because the combat will be more along the lines of "sit there and let the shield or armor absorb the punishment." Cruisers will also be an introduction to utility and electronic warfare modules; things like target painters, webifiers, energy neutralizers, etc. provide a decent / viable way to catch those nimble frigate targets and hold them still so your weapons can kill them.

So, basically, don't forget to train the support skills from Armor, Shield, Electronics, Navigation etc., to allow you to install these things on your cruiser and otherwise defend it properly.

Thank you very helpfull info.

Thanks to everyone that is helping me understanding the game.

Also I dont have English as my main language so sorry my "Broken English".

Qwelas Tagus
Akimamur Industries
Incorporeal Conglomerate Society
#14 - 2015-12-02 14:22:18 UTC
Broject wrote:
And that's why he shouldn't go with cruisers/more 6anky ships with more relative firepower.
He'll just sit there, waiting for ships to approach or approach them himself instead,
because he uses an inferior choice of weaponry that degrades the experience.

You can be willing to learn and engage the experience, or you want it easier.
One can't have both at the same time.

While there's no denying different things can be learned in different ships,
doing lvl2s in cruisers teaches less than using destroyers.

He will not spoil himself with the relatively easier cruisers,
which he will inevitably switch to once reaching lvl3s anyway.

Skipping a shipclass is bad. Most don't go back until much later, if ever.

I already use a destroyer, I didnt skip it! I was just asking what the next spet I should focus to be able to do harder missions, you cant do lvl 3 missions with a destroyer (pls correct if I'm wrong).

Thanks to everyone that is helping me understanding the game.

Also I dont have English as my main language so sorry my "Broken English".

Qwelas Tagus
Akimamur Industries
Incorporeal Conglomerate Society
#15 - 2015-12-02 14:27:24 UTC
Solai wrote:
I agree with Memphis Baas broadly, but Broject has a good point.

It's possible to do lvl 2's in a frigate or destroyer, particularly by being difficult to hit. Example -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT8VqVcLDqc

However, that could be pretty demanding on your learning pace, if you're very new. If you have a decent idea on how to fit your ship and how to use it, a destroyer or frigate is viable. But if you're struggling to make sense of all the things flying at you, then that cruiser will give you breathing room.

In the end, do what's more fun. Don't push so much that you get stressed out of the game. But don't do what's easiest either. Always push, but set your own pace.

If you want tips on how to fit & fly a frigate, cruiser, or destroyer for lvl2's, or 3's, ask here.

On a different note, don't worry about training things past rank three, and avoid going for T3 destroyers, or T2 ships. Specialization in this game yields diminishing returns. Eve tends to reward the generalist, so get a few quick ranks in a lot of things before sinking time into one skill. Wait until you feel confident in what you're doing before training higher skills or pursuing a specialized path.

When you talk about being a generalist you mean about combat skills, there is no point on train industry and similar skills if I dont plane to use them right?

Thanks to everyone that is helping me understanding the game.

Also I dont have English as my main language so sorry my "Broken English".

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#16 - 2015-12-02 15:23:54 UTC
Qwelas Tagus wrote:
Solai wrote:
I agree with Memphis Baas broadly, but Broject has a good point.

It's possible to do lvl 2's in a frigate or destroyer, particularly by being difficult to hit. Example -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT8VqVcLDqc

However, that could be pretty demanding on your learning pace, if you're very new. If you have a decent idea on how to fit your ship and how to use it, a destroyer or frigate is viable. But if you're struggling to make sense of all the things flying at you, then that cruiser will give you breathing room.

In the end, do what's more fun. Don't push so much that you get stressed out of the game. But don't do what's easiest either. Always push, but set your own pace.

If you want tips on how to fit & fly a frigate, cruiser, or destroyer for lvl2's, or 3's, ask here.

On a different note, don't worry about training things past rank three, and avoid going for T3 destroyers, or T2 ships. Specialization in this game yields diminishing returns. Eve tends to reward the generalist, so get a few quick ranks in a lot of things before sinking time into one skill. Wait until you feel confident in what you're doing before training higher skills or pursuing a specialized path.

When you talk about being a generalist you mean about combat skills, there is no point on train industry and similar skills if I dont plane to use them right?

Right, as we've said before, cruisers are the workhorses of eve and can be shoehorned into just about any activity with the correct fittings.

If you're not into industry or mining then there's no reason to put any sp that way.
Broject
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-12-02 15:38:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Broject
Qwelas Tagus wrote:
Broject wrote:
And that's why he shouldn't go with cruisers/more 6anky ships with more relative firepower.
He'll just sit there, waiting for ships to approach or approach them himself instead,
because he uses an inferior choice of weaponry that degrades the experience.

You can be willing to learn and engage the experience, or you want it easier.
One can't have both at the same time.

While there's no denying different things can be learned in different ships,
doing lvl2s in cruisers teaches less than using destroyers.

He will not spoil himself with the relatively easier cruisers,
which he will inevitably switch to once reaching lvl3s anyway.

Skipping a shipclass is bad. Most don't go back until much later, if ever.

I already use a destroyer, I didnt skip it! I was just asking what the next spet I should focus to be able to do harder missions, you cant do lvl 3 missions with a destroyer (pls correct if I'm wrong).

I tried it, but switched to a (borrowed) faction cruiser using 650s.

tldr is that it was no fun and frustrating, however I never was a fan of missions anyway.


Also: Listen to Ralph. He's very smart.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#18 - 2015-12-02 16:13:51 UTC
Actually you can do a few of the lvl 3's in a t1 destroyer, it's far from efficient and you're liable to lose the ship if you aren't familiar with which missions actually need a larger hull but it's simply safer and easier to just use a cruiser.
Ginnie
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-12-02 16:50:24 UTC
When I am helping a new player get familiar with running missions or even build up standing, I may run a few lvl 2s with them. Typically, I use a frigate and the other player uses a frigate. I don't use cruisers until lvl 3s.

It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.

Qwelas Tagus
Akimamur Industries
Incorporeal Conglomerate Society
#20 - 2015-12-02 17:37:49 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Actually you can do a few of the lvl 3's in a t1 destroyer, it's far from efficient and you're liable to lose the ship if you aren't familiar with which missions actually need a larger hull but it's simply safer and easier to just use a cruiser.

What do you mean about a bullseye on my corp because of the merc name? (Didnt saw that message early sry)

Thanks to everyone that is helping me understanding the game.

Also I dont have English as my main language so sorry my "Broken English".

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