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[December] Command Destroyers

First post First post
Author
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#581 - 2015-11-30 11:23:54 UTC
what happens if two MJD activate at the same time? is it just a random split bewteen the two? or is there always and order of operations?
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#582 - 2015-11-30 13:30:56 UTC
Rowells wrote:
what happens if two MJD activate at the same time? is it just a random split bewteen the two? or is there always and order of operations?


Two buddies of mine did try this out on SiSi and this daisy chaining works in order of activation. We did was we were aligning to a celestial and the one in front activated first, then I and then the other missed it but we were already 200km from where we started so it does work with timer ticks and in order of activation.

So if you need to jump someone 100 to n+100km you can do just that.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#583 - 2015-11-30 13:37:46 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I honestly don't understand the thought process behind these new MJFGs. It seems to me that there has never been a "why" for these modules; what problem do they solve? I mean what kind of balance is there in being able to daisy chain these things? I can now move any arbitrary distance I want in any arbitrary direction as long as I have enough of these ships, and we have seen time and again that eve players are good at massing together ships.

Sounds like everybody at CCP has got caught up in a weird internal language where "emergent gameplay" is an excuse to design something that you don't even know what it's for. Seriously the first stage of a design is deciding what the new thing is for. I get that you want to give us tools but they need to still fill a purpose and they still need to be balanced. After 10+ years in existence it's getting hard to add new roles to eve, focus on balance first and then if we still need new ships we can add them.


I see tons of use cases for them and most of my fellow peers know them too. Your lack of vision a use for them doesn't invalidate the uses for everyone.
Just give it a few months and there will be many use cases even you may develop.

And all this becomes clear on Dec 8th.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

h4kun4
Gang Bang Pandas
#584 - 2015-11-30 15:27:08 UTC
What people who follow this thread told me is that the Destroyers will be quite hard to kill because they have a small sig (which should bloom when activating the jump field) and if one of these things burns inside the fleet solo its quite easy to fend off (some lachesis/Arazus with factionscrams) but if you are able to chain them and the people doing have proper skill, they can rip apart any slower fleet doctrine. I understand that it must be hard work to time the MJD gen properly so you dont come in too late/early and nothing happens.
I will be honest, i didn't bother to read all the last 30 pages or so, so please excuse me if this suggestion already happened.

HIC Bubbles interrupt any MJDs, local or field generated.

A simple risk vs. reward equation:
Option A = No HIC: You Risk that your fleet gets torn apart but you can MJD/warp off if the brown hits the fan.

Option B = HIC: You Risk that your fleet get hit by a painful bombrun or gets in a shortrange brawl it can't win but you will be rewarded with the security from hostile MJD fields.

Anyway, I look forward to the changes. No matter how its going to turn out, first look, then complain
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#585 - 2015-11-30 15:41:50 UTC
h4kun4 wrote:
....
HIC Bubbles interrupt any MJDs, local or field generated.

A simple risk vs. reward equation:...


What would the "reward" be?

There seems to be a misunderstanding of risk versus reward here. Risk being you undock. A proper reward for the risk of undocking is a faction, deadspace or officer module or isk payout.

A killmail is not a reward.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
#586 - 2015-11-30 21:42:51 UTC
Where the **** is the Kil2 I used to know, and how much of that koolaid did they make him drink?
Every small-ship change/addition that has been added SCREAMS of people who have no idea what they are dealing with.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#587 - 2015-11-30 21:54:45 UTC
h4kun4 wrote:
What people who follow this thread told me is that the Destroyers will be quite hard to kill because they have a small sig (which should bloom when activating the jump field) and if one of these things burns inside the fleet solo its quite easy to fend off (some lachesis/Arazus with factionscrams) but if you are able to chain them and the people doing have proper skill, they can rip apart any slower fleet doctrine. I understand that it must be hard work to time the MJD gen properly so you dont come in too late/early and nothing happens.
I will be honest, i didn't bother to read all the last 30 pages or so, so please excuse me if this suggestion already happened.

HIC Bubbles interrupt any MJDs, local or field generated.

A simple risk vs. reward equation:
Option A = No HIC: You Risk that your fleet gets torn apart but you can MJD/warp off if the brown hits the fan.

Option B = HIC: You Risk that your fleet get hit by a painful bombrun or gets in a shortrange brawl it can't win but you will be rewarded with the security from hostile MJD fields.

Anyway, I look forward to the changes. No matter how its going to turn out, first look, then complain

MJDs are supposed to be a partial counter to bubbles, no need to make the counter-counter countered again.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#588 - 2015-11-30 21:57:11 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Rowells wrote:
what happens if two MJD activate at the same time? is it just a random split bewteen the two? or is there always and order of operations?


Two buddies of mine did try this out on SiSi and this daisy chaining works in order of activation. We did was we were aligning to a celestial and the one in front activated first, then I and then the other missed it but we were already 200km from where we started so it does work with timer ticks and in order of activation.

So if you need to jump someone 100 to n+100km you can do just that.

Clarification:

If a ship is located in two MJD fields (assuming the two command destroyers are not in each other's fields, which one would the ship take?

For instance, odd timing has led a hostile CD trying to MJD my ship into hostiles, and the other CD is trying to get me back to safety away from the hostiles, at the same time.

Is it server tick or actual time or voodoo magic?
h4kun4
Gang Bang Pandas
#589 - 2015-11-30 23:50:58 UTC
Only HIC bubbles would be blocking MJDs while not working like a scram in this idea, so you couls still mwd out on a gatecamp for example. DIC Bubbles, ESS bubble and Mobile anchorable Bubbles would not affect an MJD by any means.

Again, because it seems like there was a misunderstanding
Risk = You kill your own fleet by bubbling them
Reward = your fleets stays together so you might win
Reason = Everone has the choice to be prepared to certain things...the one who chooses to bring a certain ship will get that chance, the one who decides against it has to deal with it if he gets podded, Its always been like that, preparation shopuld be rewarded, otherwise the game wouldn't be fun.

ofc that only works in nullsec and WH
This would just be a way i imagined would help to not make fleet eagements a game of russian destroyer roulette, still there might be better ways, like capping the number of times you can stack mjd fields or sth else nobody had thought about yet...


Some philosophic words about risk and rewards:
Risk vs. reward works for everything in eve, for every risk you take (every action that moves your ship closer to exploding) there should be a reward, let it be isk, a nice item drop, tears of the enemy, a nice chat wit the one you just shot how awesome that fight was, or simply the certain knowledge that you've just ruined someones day. Everything you think of as a reward, becomes a reward.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#590 - 2015-12-01 02:58:51 UTC
h4kun4 wrote:
Only HIC bubbles would be blocking MJDs while not working like a scram in this idea, so you couls still mwd out on a gatecamp for example. DIC Bubbles, ESS bubble and Mobile anchorable Bubbles would not affect an MJD by any means.

Again, because it seems like there was a misunderstanding
Risk = You kill your own fleet by bubbling them
Reward = your fleets stays together so you might win
Reason = Everone has the choice to be prepared to certain things...the one who chooses to bring a certain ship will get that chance, the one who decides against it has to deal with it if he gets podded, Its always been like that, preparation shopuld be rewarded, otherwise the game wouldn't be fun.

ofc that only works in nullsec and WH
This would just be a way i imagined would help to not make fleet eagements a game of russian destroyer roulette, still there might be better ways, like capping the number of times you can stack mjd fields or sth else nobody had thought about yet...


Some philosophic words about risk and rewards:
Risk vs. reward works for everything in eve, for every risk you take (every action that moves your ship closer to exploding) there should be a reward, let it be isk, a nice item drop, tears of the enemy, a nice chat wit the one you just shot how awesome that fight was, or simply the certain knowledge that you've just ruined someones day. Everything you think of as a reward, becomes a reward.


why not just use the hic to scram the destroyers or its own fleet members?

also have you tried using these things? its a pain just to jump one unwilling target let alone a good portion of your fleet
Calypso Warsmith
Strata Dynamics
Power Absolute Inc.
#591 - 2015-12-01 04:47:53 UTC
* Command Destroyers - Do not show up on D-Scan.


This is needed.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#592 - 2015-12-01 13:26:19 UTC
Rowells wrote:
For instance, odd timing has led a hostile CD trying to MJD my ship into hostiles, and the other CD is trying to get me back to safety away from the hostiles, at the same time.


Till now, the vectors effectively stack. Had it happen once with animations playing slightly out of sync, yet the movement was not what I intended.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#593 - 2015-12-01 13:49:26 UTC
Calypso Warsmith wrote:
* Command Destroyers - Do not show up on D-Scan.


This is needed.

Are you saying that Command Destroyers should not show up on D-scan? If that is what you are suggesting, why do you think that is necessary?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#594 - 2015-12-01 15:15:26 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Calypso Warsmith wrote:
* Command Destroyers - Do not show up on D-Scan.


This is needed.

Are you saying that Command Destroyers should not show up on D-scan? If that is what you are suggesting, why do you think that is necessary?



cause links should be safe ;)
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#595 - 2015-12-01 15:18:33 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Calypso Warsmith wrote:
* Command Destroyers - Do not show up on D-Scan.


This is needed.

Are you saying that Command Destroyers should not show up on D-scan? If that is what you are suggesting, why do you think that is necessary?



cause links should be safe ;)



There was some debate on the other thread if he meant they currently DO NOT.

To which my money is on he's not added them to his dscan overview settings.
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#596 - 2015-12-01 15:23:20 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Calypso Warsmith wrote:
* Command Destroyers - Do not show up on D-Scan.


This is needed.

Are you saying that Command Destroyers should not show up on D-scan? If that is what you are suggesting, why do you think that is necessary?



cause links should be safe ;)



There was some debate on the other thread if he meant they currently DO NOT.

To which my money is on he's not added them to his dscan overview settings.



i see the wording now. should pay alittle more attention. Thought it was asking for them to not show on d-scan not that they where either bugged not to or he forgot to update his overview.
James Shardanii
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#597 - 2015-12-02 03:22:56 UTC
I see an easy counter to any command dessies trying to jump out parts of your fleet:

Space out your fleet or have a few anti-dessy groups made up of two cruisers or a frig and a cruiser. These groups should worry about nothing but enemy command dessies. Whenever one starts to make a move, the nearest group MWDs to its most likely target, tackles and destroys the dessy. If the firepower of the group is insufficient to destroy it in a timely manner, have the group web and target paint the dessy and reassign a BC/BS's guns for a few seconds.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#598 - 2015-12-02 04:50:09 UTC
James Shardanii wrote:
I see an easy counter to any command dessies trying to jump out parts of your fleet:

Space out your fleet or have a few anti-dessy groups made up of two cruisers or a frig and a cruiser. These groups should worry about nothing but enemy command dessies. Whenever one starts to make a move, the nearest group MWDs to its most likely target, tackles and destroys the dessy. If the firepower of the group is insufficient to destroy it in a timely manner, have the group web and target paint the dessy and reassign a BC/BS's guns for a few seconds.

If any of those ships for a scram, they should be able to easily stop it where it stands.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#599 - 2015-12-02 09:39:53 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Calypso Warsmith wrote:
* Command Destroyers - Do not show up on D-Scan.


This is needed.

Are you saying that Command Destroyers should not show up on D-scan? If that is what you are suggesting, why do you think that is necessary?


i read his post as: i dont see command destroyers on D-scan. and after that he posts that it is necessary i think he means that it is necassary to see them on D-scan and i agree (to make it abundantly clear i agree that it needs to be visible on D-scan)

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
#600 - 2015-12-02 11:04:31 UTC
More CPU for the Pontifex please.