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Caracal or Navy Omen for DED and Ratting?

Author
Fiona Osferth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-12-01 14:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Fiona Osferth
Hey everyone Im relatively new to eve. Ive been practicing some PvE fits and honestly im not sure where to start with the fits but the first question would be BESIDES the Golem which one of these two ships is better for PvE? I assume the Caracal due to the missiles but im not sure. I really wanted to start flying Amarr asap. And if anyone wanted to suggest other ships or PvE fits that would be great! I kind of need some help in understanding where I should focus my attention when fitting a ship for PvE vs. PvP

Ive been trying a Caracal build myself where I have about 20k EHP but only about 300-400 DPS (and my cap is stable surprisingly) with Rapid light missile launchers. I can use SOME tech two shield stuff and well im not too bogged down by price, i usually have 100mil in my bank and can easily go out and do some exploration for another 100mil if needed in a day.

If anyone has any advice for PvEing in general that would be awesome!

Thanks everyone
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#2 - 2015-12-01 16:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Fiona Osferth wrote:
Hey everyone Im relatively new to eve. Ive been practicing some PvE fits and honestly im not sure where to start with the fits but the first question would be BESIDES the Golem which one of these two ships is better for PvE? I assume the Caracal due to the missiles but im not sure. I really wanted to start flying Amarr asap. And if anyone wanted to suggest other ships or PvE fits that would be great! I kind of need some help in understanding where I should focus my attention when fitting a ship for PvE vs. PvP

Ive been trying a Caracal build myself where I have about 20k EHP but only about 300-400 DPS (and my cap is stable surprisingly) with Rapid light missile launchers. I can use SOME tech two shield stuff and well im not too bogged down by price, i usually have 100mil in my bank and can easily go out and do some exploration for another 100mil if needed in a day.

If anyone has any advice for PvEing in general that would be awesome!

Thanks everyone


EHP is more of a PvP thing - PvE fits usually need some sort of sustainable tank, or the ability to avoid damage entirely (through range or speed, sometimes just plain old high DPS, etc.).

Same goes for RLML. Those are great when the fight is likely to be over before you have to reload. In PvE, you're probably going to have to reload several times per mission or site or whatever it is you're doing.

Comparing a navy ship to a standard one isn't really fair.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Fiona Osferth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-12-01 16:30:27 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Fiona Osferth wrote:
Hey everyone Im relatively new to eve. Ive been practicing some PvE fits and honestly im not sure where to start with the fits but the first question would be BESIDES the Golem which one of these two ships is better for PvE? I assume the Caracal due to the missiles but im not sure. I really wanted to start flying Amarr asap. And if anyone wanted to suggest other ships or PvE fits that would be great! I kind of need some help in understanding where I should focus my attention when fitting a ship for PvE vs. PvP

Ive been trying a Caracal build myself where I have about 20k EHP but only about 300-400 DPS (and my cap is stable surprisingly) with Rapid light missile launchers. I can use SOME tech two shield stuff and well im not too bogged down by price, i usually have 100mil in my bank and can easily go out and do some exploration for another 100mil if needed in a day.

If anyone has any advice for PvEing in general that would be awesome!

Thanks everyone


EHP is more of a PvP thing - PvE fits usually need some sort of sustainable tank, or the ability to avoid damage entirely (through range or speed, sometimes just plain old high DPS, etc.).

Same goes for RLML. Those are great when the fight is likely to be over before you have to reload. In PvE, you're probably going to have to reload several times per mission or site or whatever it is you're doing.

Comparing a navy ship to a standard one isn't really fair.

Is the Navy ship pretty much 100% better all the time? and what is RLML?
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2015-12-01 17:10:09 UTC
In general:
If it's a Navy version, it has better tanking ability. You'll find that almost all Navy ships have one more slot and many can mount one more weapon as well.

RLML = Rapid Light Missile Launcher.
Not a good choice for PvE. Use Heavy Missiles or Heavy Assaults in smaller hulls or smaller missions.
When you get to lvl 4 missions, move into a BS, with Cruise or Torps.
(You can do level 3 missions from a BS platform)
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#5 - 2015-12-01 17:30:54 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Fiona Osferth wrote:

Is the Navy ship pretty much 100% better all the time? and what is RLML?


RLML = Rapid Light Missile Launcher. They do good burst damage, but have a long reload time.

And, yeah, navy ships are generally just better, or close enough that only true pedants will find that assertion objectionable.

Comparing, e.g., the Omen and N.Omen, the N. Omen has:

-One more low slot.
-More CPU and PG.
-One less turret, but a higher per-level bonus. The net effect is that it has .66 fewer "effective turrets", but only has to fit 4 instead of 5. This means it's easier to fit bigger guns, and it has a slot leftover for a utility mod.
-10%/level optimal range bonus, which replaces the laser cap use bonus of the Omen.
-More drone bay/bandwidth.
-Something like 50% more raw HP.
-More cap, faster cap recharge.
-More targeting range.
-More max velocity.

And so on.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Fiona Osferth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-12-01 18:06:23 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Fiona Osferth wrote:

Is the Navy ship pretty much 100% better all the time? and what is RLML?


RLML = Rapid Light Missile Launcher. They do good burst damage, but have a long reload time.

And, yeah, navy ships are generally just better, or close enough that only true pedants will find that assertion objectionable.

Comparing, e.g., the Omen and N.Omen, the N. Omen has:

-One more low slot.
-More CPU and PG.
-One less turret, but a higher per-level bonus. The net effect is that it has .66 fewer "effective turrets", but only has to fit 4 instead of 5. This means it's easier to fit bigger guns, and it has a slot leftover for a utility mod.
-10%/level optimal range bonus, which replaces the laser cap use bonus of the Omen.
-More drone bay/bandwidth.
-Something like 50% more raw HP.
-More cap, faster cap recharge.
-More targeting range.
-More max velocity.

And so on.
Well im being told amarr generally early on isnt that good for PvE would the N. Omen be comprable? im thinking of doing wormhole sites in a very small fleet like 4-5 people and its either that or a Caldarif Cruiser or other Amarr Cruider

What would you suggest for Passive tanking? i mean is 20k EHP the best im going to get with Tech 1?
Daerrol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-12-01 18:46:01 UTC
Omen Navy with good skills beam lasers, and an MWD should absolutely CRUSH in Sansha and Blood Raider low-end missions. Belt ratting and DED? Not so much. I would suggest the Maller for Amarrian belt ratting against Sansha/Bloodraider and the Arbitrator for everything else. In general, however, Amarr cruisers lack the raw DPS to be good ratting ships. The Harbingers ups the ante a bit at the Battlecruiser lever but it desperately NEEDS T2 Pulse Lasers. Every Amarr T1 battleship and the Paladin are Great to God Tier PVE boats*.

* The 'Geddon is exceptional for running a near PVP fit that can easily (bu slowly) do anomolies. God tier bait
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#8 - 2015-12-01 18:50:31 UTC
You will need logi if you are running wormhole sites with a small fleet of T1 cruisers, so your choice would depend on what kind of logi the fleet is bringing.

I'd probably lean towards the Caracal simply because sleepers tend to use energy neutralizers and missile launchers don't use cap, but really in a fleet with logi either should work fine.
Daerrol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-12-01 18:51:27 UTC
Fiona Osferth wrote:
Well im being told amarr generally early on isnt that good for PvE would the N. Omen be comprable? im thinking of doing wormhole sites in a very small fleet like 4-5 people and its either that or a Caldarif Cruiser or other Amarr Cruider

What would you suggest for Passive tanking? i mean is 20k EHP the best im going to get with Tech 1?


You are switching it up a lot! PVE in EVE is a vast and complex beast. Your thread asks for Ratting and DED which implies Low/Nullsec work. Now you bring up Wormholes! A ship that can DED well may not and most likely will not do well in a Wormhole. Even still, a solo wormhole ship looks totally different than a group focused wormhole ship. What kind of PVE are you intending to do? What class of wormhole? Generally the "Kings" of wormholes are T3 Cruisers but my buddies are I did some extremely low-SP Dominixes and were able to clear C3/C4 sites with only 1 month of training.
Fiona Osferth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-12-01 19:43:49 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
Fiona Osferth wrote:
Well im being told amarr generally early on isnt that good for PvE would the N. Omen be comprable? im thinking of doing wormhole sites in a very small fleet like 4-5 people and its either that or a Caldarif Cruiser or other Amarr Cruider

What would you suggest for Passive tanking? i mean is 20k EHP the best im going to get with Tech 1?


You are switching it up a lot! PVE in EVE is a vast and complex beast. Your thread asks for Ratting and DED which implies Low/Nullsec work. Now you bring up Wormholes! A ship that can DED well may not and most likely will not do well in a Wormhole. Even still, a solo wormhole ship looks totally different than a group focused wormhole ship. What kind of PVE are you intending to do? What class of wormhole? Generally the "Kings" of wormholes are T3 Cruisers but my buddies are I did some extremely low-SP Dominixes and were able to clear C3/C4 sites with only 1 month of training.



I just mean everything in general with PVE haha but I mostly want to do DED and wormholes so guide me oh master lol
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#11 - 2015-12-09 01:25:22 UTC
best navy cruiser for pve is Vexor Navy Issue by a long way, Navy Omen has a lot of good uses in pvp but it's bad value for pve and same goes for the Aug Navy. Lasers don't have selectable damage so they're not great for pve unless you're shooting at rats with em/therm resistance hole, also you want long range and high dps to run sites faster, so drones and missiles will outclass most turret ships for pve.

If you want affordable and you're working in dangerous space stick to t1 where possible and always insure... after insurance it's cheaper to lose a t1 battleship than it is to lose a navy cruiser because you get most of the value of the hull back from the insurance payout, and battleships or battlecruisers will almost always better for pve.