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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Why do off grid links exist?

Author
Markus Lionum
EVE Corporation 98582134
#141 - 2015-11-27 20:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Lionum
Titus Heldane wrote:
Markus Lionum wrote:
Great freaking job CCP are you insane putting links on grid? You are killing solo pvp for alot of people if you implement this!! Pirate


i hope this is a troll post


and you are corect.

I for one, as a enthusiastic sport pvp'er in FW areas, welcome this change with open arms. Been playing since 2008 and hated OGB since day 1 I pvp'ed.

Latelly i started fielding a gnosis with T1 links - even with that I felt OP and I will hapilly give it up as long as every1 else does the same.
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#142 - 2015-11-27 21:16:47 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Special fits. Also, i didnt exactly obliterate them either. Just harass.
Links just make more options viable.

Do you think it should not be possible to fight outnumbered?


If the only way to fight outnumbered is to buy a second account and drag around a cloaky boosting pet...that is bad gameplay. I question the notion that you can't fight outnumbered without links. I have done it. It's harder. You have to choose your fights carefully and craft a fitting carefully to the task. You should still be able to dance around an enemy blob with a HG snaked speed fit garmur. It will entail more risk and require better piloting and be more susceptible to counters.

This is an MMO. One player is not supposed to be able to hold the field against a 30 man blob indefinitely. If the only way to do that is to run an AFK buff pet on a second account, then something needs fixing.

You are literally saying that being able to fight outnumbered is a function of whether or not you sub a links toon rather than player skill and decision-making. Don't you see anything wrong with that?

You shouldn't be able to effectively harass a 30 man fleet just because you pay a second account and for whatever reason no one in that fleet does.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#143 - 2015-11-27 21:22:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
If the 30 man blob doesnt have a probing alt then i would suggest that they came ill prepared.

A lot of the time all you have to do is throw up a half-assed probe box to make hostile boosts go away lol.
Arla Sarain
#144 - 2015-11-27 21:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
You can fight outnumbered without links. About the only thing that hasn't been said.

You can now
and you will be later.

You'll have less margin for error, but the kite/damp fest isn't exclusive to encounters with links involved.

The recurring argument was that you can fight links without your own links or probers.
Similarly you can fight without links; entirely possible, just harder. Saying otherwise is hypocritical.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#145 - 2015-11-27 21:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
I never said that people can fight links without links or probes. I never spoke to that at all.

I said that if people feel that they cannot fight linked pilots then they can use probes instead. Most of the time the booster is a more expensive kill anyway.

Whats the word for calling someone a hypocrite based on something they never said?


The main problem i will encounter without links, is the plex mechanics themselves. I use links to clear scrams on the warp in. I will warp in to most things and have a go.

Without links i will simply see a gang in a plex and have to go to a different plex and either wait for them to leave and undo the contested rate they accrued by completing my own plex or wait for them to warp in to me.

Also, im not saying that without links its impossible to breach a plex in a kite ship. Im just saying its probably not worth testing it most of the time only to give away effortless kills to a blob at zero on the warp in.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#146 - 2015-11-27 23:39:42 UTC
D0nci wrote:
The whiners won, they'll be removing OGB in the next few months.


This is confusing. OGB has been slated for removal for, literally, years. They've never hemmed or hawed or played this one close to the vest in the slightest. There were technical limitations that were waiting on BIAB.

BIAB is now here. What did you think was going to happen?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#147 - 2015-11-28 00:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
I never said that people can fight links without links or probes. I never spoke to that at all.

I said that if people feel that they cannot fight linked pilots then they can use probes instead. Most of the time the booster is a more expensive kill anyway.

Whats the word for calling someone a hypocrite based on something they never said?


The main problem i will encounter without links, is the plex mechanics themselves. I use links to clear scrams on the warp in. I will warp in to most things and have a go.

Without links i will simply see a gang in a plex and have to go to a different plex and either wait for them to leave and undo the contested rate they accrued by completing my own plex or wait for them to warp in to me.

Also, im not saying that without links its impossible to breach a plex in a kite ship. Im just saying its probably not worth testing it most of the time only to give away effortless kills to a blob at zero on the warp in.


A properly fit garmur with HG Snakes should still be able to slide a plex, especially vs unlinked opponents. It will be riskier to make rhat choice. That aspect of plex warfare is literally the only thing that makes AB brawling/scram kiting fits even viable. And you well know there are options for engaging multiple opponents even in a small or novice if one has significant resources to invest and some imagination. Drugs and implants are very powerful; they are just far more balanced from a risk/reward perspective.
You may not be able to warp in on a 30 man blob with competent tackle on the button and frankly I don't think you should be able to.

It's a fairly anticlimactic proposition anyway. If your 70k point/missile range uncatchable garmur makes it out of scram range, you've won. The enemy can only leave, ball up on logi or die one at a time unless they have someone sitting in a linked dramiel.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#148 - 2015-11-28 01:07:17 UTC
So the blob sit in one plex, and i sit in another waiting for them to never come. Win-win, wait... lol.
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#149 - 2015-11-28 02:07:11 UTC
I've successfully slid plexes in a slicer only doing 5700 heated. Garmur with HG Snakes should get what, 9k? Still very possible but now there will be some risk. Maybe you can use a cheaper kite ship and use the RF garmur for fleet support, a role for which it is really good even without links.

I've looked at your fit. It surpasses 10k with heat, and points/locks/shoots out to 70k. You don't find that slightly broken? You think the cancer ship kite meta is good for the game? God forbid people have to run their nano kite gangs with a margin of error that's actually relevant.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#150 - 2015-11-28 02:18:33 UTC
Sensor boosted Maulus is like 3 mil bro. If it can damp an Orthrus, it can damp a Garmur.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#151 - 2015-11-28 02:39:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I've successfully slid plexes in a slicer only doing 5700 heated. Garmur with HG Snakes should get what, 9k? Still very possible but now there will be some risk. Maybe you can use a cheaper kite ship and use the RF garmur for fleet support, a role for which it is really good even without links.

I've looked at your fit. It surpasses 10k with heat, and points/locks/shoots out to 70k. You don't find that slightly broken? You think the cancer ship kite meta is good for the game? God forbid people have to run their nano kite gangs with a margin of error that's actually relevant.


There is no denying the snaked linked garmur is powerful.

Do you want to balance the game based on an edge case?

People have nightmares about edge cases, but they really are not as common as people who wake up in sweats think.
Kalo Askold
Sanguis Inceptum
#152 - 2015-11-28 03:55:00 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
So the blob sit in one plex, and i sit in another waiting for them to never come. Win-win, wait... lol.


That or have a ungunned jackdaw like hull (25-30k) ehp ongrid link ship instead of sitting 30km from a pos surrounded by friendly guns.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#153 - 2015-11-28 04:28:54 UTC
Kalo Askold wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
So the blob sit in one plex, and i sit in another waiting for them to never come. Win-win, wait... lol.


That or have a ungunned jackdaw like hull (25-30k) ehp ongrid link ship instead of sitting 30km from a pos surrounded by friendly guns.


I forgive your extreme ignorance of how eve mechanics work in FW lowsec.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
Villore Accords
#154 - 2015-11-28 05:17:04 UTC
4 moar dead boosters today. Including those surrounded by "friendly guns".

If you don't like them, just kill em while you wait for OGB to go away.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#155 - 2015-11-28 05:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
4 moar dead boosters today. Including those surrounded by "friendly guns".

If you don't like them, just kill em while you wait for OGB to go away.


Thats just impossible. Boosts are god mode. And expecting people to invest a fraction of SP in killing boosts as boosters do in boosting is fractally imbalanced.

They are always aligned, they are always dscanning, they are always immune to your will.
JetStream Drenard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2015-11-28 06:25:14 UTC
LOL
Markus Lionum
EVE Corporation 98582134
#157 - 2015-11-28 09:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Lionum
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
..............



I remember you - you doing tha ghei maulus thing for years now - you had your fun now move on or go shoot the jita monument.

Your tears fills my soul with joy.
Davir Sometaww
Spooks On Pings
SE7EN-SINS
#158 - 2015-11-28 11:11:51 UTC
Markus Lionum wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
..............



I remember you - you doing tha ghei maulus thing for years now - you had your fun now move on or go shoot the jita monument.

Your tears fills my soul with joy.



It just encourages the N+1 blob mechanic. If you think that its going to fix anything, it is really only going to make eve worse.

You'd think after the limited information we are getting about Capitals - and how "Fozzie Sov" was a complete flop - which led to subscription account decrease - that they would take a pause before considering what the hell to do.


Yes links suck, but they enable these things to happen:

1.) Engagement against higher numbers.
2.) In FW - ability to engage in scenarios you would otherwise run away from.
3.) Incursions
4.) WH Space PVE

Ways you can counter links:
1.) Invest skill points on probing. Often times, the link ship is a more successful and juicy kill.
2.) Bring your own link ship.
3.) Tornado
4.) Many more ways!


WHY this change is stupid

1.) HELLO FALCON AND ROOK. You thought dealing with link alts were bad, wait till you see my x2 falcons/rooks.

2.) Why give "content" when I know that your blob of N+1 is greater than mine? Why fight when I know you can guard your links more. This encourages the Goonswarm 5 to 1 mentality.

3.) Well, RIP to WH fun. Already such a dwindling population, and with the new changes...not even worth the effort.




Longdrinks
Zero Fun Allowed
#159 - 2015-11-28 11:53:32 UTC
Eve was kill when i could no longer dunk on Noobs with 7k garmur in novice plex
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#160 - 2015-11-28 13:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Markus Lionum wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
..............



I remember you - you doing tha ghei maulus thing for years now - you had your fun now move on or go shoot the jita monument.

Your tears fills my soul with joy.


Not sure where i was crying. Im perfectly cross trained on both chars. Im just pointing out that the changes will have a much greater effect than just fixing solo pvp for thekestrel/p[unisher meta.

And apologies for going out and fighting with a 'ghey maulus'. I should really be more like you with 100 kills and 200 losses over 7 years lol.